This Week's Edo Period Corner

[Stephen]

Piers,

Love these pix, but just once walk up to one and shoot the swords or tsuba to give us a idea whats there, ones mind wanders off to hidden treasures, thanks agin for showing a fun time each time.

[Bugyotsuji]

Pires

 

Love these pix, but just once walk up to one and shoot the swords or tsuba to give us a idea whats there, ones mind wanders off to hidden treasures, thanks agin for showing a fun time each time.

 

LOL Stephen, you can't have your cake AND eat it!

 

Let the romance do the rest. I expect Brian will get some close-ups on his trip in a couple of weeks.

[Brian]

For sure. This time I am actually taking a camera with, unlike last time :?

I'll be sure to flood the board with pics..and won't miss any swords or fittings at the markets.

Mind you...I have a feeling they know exactly what they have, and there are few bargains to be found. Some of the markets are more expensive than the shops. They see prices on the shops and think everything is worth that. Just my experience from last time.

 

Brian

[Bugyotsuji]

Sounds like you have your head screwed on the right way round, Brian.

 

One of the reasons that I have hesitated to take close-ups of wares is that the stall-holder might feel justified in saying "Are you just going to stand there taking photos, or are you going to buy something?"

 

I suppose you could say something like, "Shashin wo torasete moraemasu ka? Uchi no Kollekushon no tame ni...!"

[Bugyotsuji]

Today I was lucky enough to be invited to hold some swords. My Sensei must be desperate to get me off the ground! :lol: While I was there he showed me a Myochin Tsuba, which I bought.

 

The swords were:

Nanbokucho Mumei Kanenaga Katana

Bizen Morimitsu O-ei 31 Wak

Bichu Kunishige (Otsuki-Yogoro) Edo shoki wak

Inoue Shinkai Kanbun Kikumon Wak

Nobuhide （Kiyomaro's disciple) Shinshinto Katana

(Kyoto) Ryokai Katana x 2

Mumei Aoe end Kamakura Katana

Fukuoka Ichimonji Sukefusa (Yoshifusa's father) Katana

 

Still feeling that tonight was a special evening.

 

PS A friend writes to say that there is a Nihonto up for sale at Christie's for 280-300,000 GBP.

[Bugyotsuji]

Either tonight or tomorrow I must prepare the guns by removing the oil film from the barrels and pans, and then pack a large black bag with every conceivable piece of armour/armor that I might need for this weekend's enactment, including sword belt and wakizashi. Preparation means a couple of hours' fairly intensive work at least. (Actually I am not sure if enactment is the right word.)

 

We are going to support the Amako (some say 'Amago'), a Han originally based in the virtually impregnable Gassan Toda Castle west of Yonago. Their mortal enemies were the Mo-ri in the West, and at one point the Amako allied themselves with Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi in hopes of getting their power base back. Unfortunately they were surrounded by 30,000 Mo-ri men in Kozuki Castle, and just as they were waiting for half of Hideyoshi's army to arrive as promised, Nobunaga was assassinated, so Hideyoshi called his men back and left the Amako to their fate... their descendants still gather every year to commiserate over their eternal loss. There is a festival, so we will go and get drunk on Saturday night, and then shoot things up a bit on Sunday!

 

See last paragraph here:

http://www.nihonto.ca/yosozaemon-sukesada/index.html

[Bugyotsuji]

PS Just found some old footage of our lot taken at the Toki-no-week festival in Akashi in June last year, in case you've not seen it. Apart from the photos, you can see two video clips at the foot of the page. We have become a bit more disciplined since then!

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/tokodreamsto ... 706100000/

[kusunokimasahige]

Just love it Piers! as i already told you! if i ever visit Japan ill be sure to pay you lot a visit!

 

Are you also allowed to sleep on castle grounds?

 

We in Europe with the Romans are often allowed to sleep in the ruins of ancient legionary fortressess and every two years in the museum of Xanten, Germany, we sleep inside the remains of the ancient town!

 

Kami how i wish i could go to Japan and participate in those events there!!

 

I was wondering, is there any battleground archaology taking place in Japan? here in Europe i hardly come across any reports on actual digs in Japan...

 

Oh heres a nice cup i picked up once in an antique shop, and a pipe i found a few months back..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Age and period unknown...

 

KM

 

ah and a funny Pic of me and my Japanese re-enacting friend Taicho.

 

[Bungo]

amazing, a Japanese taller than a gaijin.

 

milt

[Bugyotsuji]

Henk-Jan, what a wonderful picture of you two together! Excellent!

 

Behind your nice cups and pipe there is a castle. One of your creations?

 

I have a few pipes myself, but do you smoke yours?

 

The idea of sleeping in the castle is great. No, we are far too civilized for that, and it is only by mistake really that we get to taste real history sometimes. A couple of years ago we went to Tsuyama Castle to the dedication of a new corner tower, the Bitchu Yagura. The dignitaries were all seated in rows by the tower, so we were asked to change in an old ruined raised section some distance away, above the castle walls and looking down on the town. It was very cold, and the early morning sun was just touching the great stone blocks. As the soles of my feet lost their warmth into the formidable rock surfaces I felt contact with the people who manned those walls hundred of years ago. We were all jumping up and down to keep warm as we hurriedly tried to get our kit on...

 

As to archaeology, I can't really answer your question properly. Many Japanese are superstitious and dislike disturbing the past if there is any possibility it still has a connection with them. Sekigahara visitors' hall is built upon the mound in which the dead were buried in a mass grave, I have heard. Our troop members shiver and tell vividly the various misfortunes that have happened to them since they last gathered there in a national re-enactment. (Luckily? I wasn't with them that time.) There is an ancient (-7thC) Korean-style mountain-top stronghold near here where archaeological excavation has just started, and this is fascinating, but it may be more possible because people do not feel a direct descent from it.

They even rebuilt one of the gateways, using the same pillar holes:

http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/yagumo/kino.htm

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

amazing, a Japanese taller than a gaijin.

 

milt

 

You should know that japaneses born in the Muromachi are smaller then the ones born

today... :D

[Stephen]

to go with your pipe set

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/SAMURAI-Tobacco-tra ... 240%3A1318

[Bugyotsuji]

Good set of photos. Well used set, but probably quite good quality in its prime. The pipe doesn't quite look silver to me.

 

The computer translation of the Notes if AWFUL, yuckkkk............cringeworthy.

[kusunokimasahige]

Beautiful set!!

 

As to smoking it, no can do... at the moment trying to quit the habit, and even smoking a pipe with the little amount of tobacco would seriousely hamper my efforts..

 

What a great story Piers about the castle! Well its not that uncivilised for us to sleep amongst the ruins of our ancestors the old way..

 

Even reconstructing part of the wall at the exact spot where the original once stood was not a problem for the city council of Nijmegen..

 

and with the siege equipment we dont have any problem either!!

 

 

 

As Romans we never are afraid of Ghosts or unlucky fate when sleeping on the holy grounds of our ancestors.. especially not when our Eagle standard proudly stands in the earth which rightfully is ours!... (LOL)

 

 

see all photos here:

 

http://www.romeinenfestival.nl/Default. ... uage=en-US

 

The story you tell about the Sekigahara museum interests me, who in their right minds builds it on the mound the slain were interred!

 

I understand your fellow members are slightly afraid of muenbotoke, however a proper shinto/bhuddist cleansing ritual should well do the trick....

 

Its sad to hear not much archaeology is going on in Japan, especially not on the battlefields...

 

It could shed a lot of light on the era and the way every day people lived.

 

and by golly... if they would excavate the ancient imperial keyhole shaped mounds....

 

I know that would be sacriledge, but i am reminded of a survey done by a university which had the outcome that the ancient Yamato tribe might have been Korean, which was very quickly binned....

 

By the way the castle you see in one of my pictures is still being built..

 

Its Shirasagi-Jo in Himeji, one of my Doyusha model kits, still have to build Edo-jo, Kin-jo and

Fukashi-jo...... when its finished ill post a photo..

 

KM

[Bungo]

" by golly... if they would excavate the ancient imperial keyhole shaped mounds.... "

 

 

I think they just recently allowed some scholars to cross the moat to take a look see.

BUt......... I know someone who shall remained nameless have preceded them abnout 60 years ago.

 

milt

[kusunokimasahige]

Might he have been amongst the occupying forces?

 

 

KM

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi all,

 

Reference to battlefield Archaeology in Japan.

 

The Zaimokuza mounds or some of the skeletal remains from those mounds were worked upon in the mid to late 1980's by Dr Myra Shackley, a U.K. Archaeologist (and Iai-Do student) with regard to wound trauma.

 

http://www.jstor.org/pss/124618

 

Shackley, Myra

1986 Arms and the Men; 14th Century Japanese Swordsmanship Illustrated by Skeletons from Zaimokuza, near Kamakura, Japan. World Archaeology 18(2):247-254.

 

 

There was a riposte c.2004 by Antony Karasulas:

 

Titre du document / Document title

Zaimokuza reconsidered: the forensic evidence, and classical Japanese swordsmanship

Auteur(s) / Author(s)

KARASULAS Antony (1) ;

Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

(1) Unit 1, 63 Jessie Street, Armidale, NSW 2350, AUSTRALIE

 

Résumé / Abstract

In July 1333, at the battle for Kamakura, the Hojo Regency fell. Many of the fallen from the battle were buried at Zaimokuza, near Kamakura. Myra Shackley made a forensic investigation of some of the Zaimokuza remains, writing her conclusions in an article printed in World Archaeology (Shackley 1986). Shackley concluded that the human remains were all of high-class samurai warriors, that those discussed had died from head wounds inflicted with refined precision using the Japanese sword and that the evidence suggested extremely high battlefield ethics. My own analysis of the remains suggested something quite different - that the fallen were in fact low-class, un-armoured foot soldiers killed by pole arms, wielded by mounted knights. No evidence was found to support the notion either of exceptional sword skill or of remarkable battlefield ethics. Shackley made errors in her use of interdisciplinary material, and this article highlights the necessity of using such resources with care.

Revue / Journal Title

World archaeology ISSN 0043-8243

Source / Source

2004, vol. 36, no4, pp. 507-518 [12 page(s) (article)] (11 ref.)

Langue / Language

Anglais

 

Editeur / Publisher

Taylor & Francis, Basingstoke, ROYAUME-UNI (1969) (Revue)

 

 

Herewith a few other sources:

 

KAWAGOE, T. (1957)

Anthropological studies on the skulls of Edo-era excavated at Yushima Muenzaka, Tokyo. Mem. Dep. Anat., 16: 1-18, Jikei Univ. Sch. Med., Tokyo (in Japanese).

KAWAGOE, T. (1975)

On the Exacavated Human Skeletal Remains of the Edo Period. 302pp., Yuzankaku, Tokyo (in Japanese).

KOIZUMI, H. (1979)

Stories of the Edo roads-from archaeological research of Edo city. Bunkazai no Hogo, No. 11: 73-85 (in Japanese).

KUMAGAI, M. (1958)

On the injured human bones of certain Yayoi period ancients, excavated at the Doigahama site, Yamaguchi prefecture. The Quatery J, Anthrop. (Jinruigaku Kenkyu) 5: 78-86 (in Japanese).

MORITA, S. and T. KAWAGOE (1960)

Anthropological studies on the skulls of Edo-era excavated at Yushima Muenzaka, Tokyo (a supplement). J. Anthrop. Soc. Nippon, 67: 38-56 (in Japanese).

NAITO, Y. (1974)

A case of lumbal vertebra of Yayoi human skeleton penetrated by an arrow head. Proceeding of the 27th Joint Meeting of the Anthrop. Soc. Nippon & the Jap. Soc. Ethnol., In: J. Anthrop. Soc. Nippon, 82: 109 (in Japanese).

NAITO, A. (1980)

Edo and Edo Castle. 244pp., SD-sensho, #4, Kashima-Shuppan, Tokyo (in Japanese).

SUZUKI, H. (1956)

On human remains. In: Medieval Japanese Skeletons from the Burial Site at Zaimokuza, Kamakura City. 194pp., Iwanaroi-Shoten, Tokyo (in Japanese with English abstract).

SUZUKI, H., H. SAKURA and A. Ehara (1957)

On the human skulls of Edo period excavated from Unko-in, Fukagawa. Proceeding of the llth Joint Meeting of the Anthrop. Soc. Nippon & the Jap. Soc. Ethnol. (in Japanese).

SUZUKI, H. (1958)

A prehistoric human illium penetrated by an arrow head. J. Anthrop. Soc. Nippon, 66: 113-115 (in Japanese).

 

Cheers

 

Malcolm

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Anybody mentioned Sake cups recently ? :D

 

 

[John A Stuart]

Hi Carlo, You have quite a collection of these. I have one as a curiosity. I know that there are lots available all the way back to the Russo-Japanese war and the prices are pretty good. My question is, are these really that old. They seem to be in such good shape they look made yesterday. Are we in that modern copy scenario here? Even the wood boxes they come in seem fresh. John

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

John.

Yes, they can be in almost perfect shape even after 100 years.

Sellers knows that collectors prefers intact items and then make a selection, but obviously you can find

also deteriorated items as well (bottom picture). That's up to the buyer to decide if cup is worth the money considering

also the event/regiment/whatever can add value. Some historical events are more appealing (Boxer's rebellion, Nomonhan

incident, first sino-Japanese war, siberian intervention, conquest of Korea, tank units, submarines etc...) then the cups can have

defects and still maintain some desirability.

Boxes usually aren't so well maintained, (same for ropes), but many cups have been put into a box that didn't belong to

them, i.e. is a more recent one or simply a period one that replaces well enough the original.

Sellers can rise the price a little, this way. The boxes that have writings matching the cup are the more desirables.

As per fakes, some are, but are almost exclusively confined to the Kamikaze and Nanking massacre, are porcelain and

so "low level" that are easily spotted. Most porcelain ones were made in the thousands during the '30s and

a certain amount can have survived with a white bowl, and there is the possibility to make a fake one depicting

and writing the bowl. But such pieces goes for 15 U$, maybe 20. Is it worth the work ?

Laquer ones are safe (well, as safe as they can be in this world).

It simply doesn't pay. There are so many out there (for now...)

The two I've just posted hereabove were about 30/40 U$ + shipping (each).

 

Here one from a buyer that masked the defects in the picture just to gain a mere 25 U$ out of me.

 

[Bungo]

" Nomonhan

incident "

............

 

that's would be interesting, I thought they got their butt kicked by the Ruskies pretty bad, rumor had it one imperial prince ( Uncle to the Tenno ) was captured alive and they had to " negotiate for his release ".

 

Talking about re-interpreting history.

 

milt

[kusunokimasahige]

Well its a well known fact concerning the modern wars the Japanese are well at re-interpreting history.....

 

KM

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

" Nomonhan

incident "

............

 

that's would be interesting, I thought they got their butt kicked by the Ruskies pretty bad, rumor had it one imperial prince ( Uncle to the Tenno ) was captured alive and they had to " negotiate for his release ".

 

Talking about re-interpreting history.

 

milt

 

 

Well its a well known fact concerning the modern wars the Japanese are well at re-interpreting history.....

 

KM

 

Straight on the nail's head. Russians kicked them badly but they needed some Propaganda. Such cups are rare.

The rarity of these cups stay in the way you can say "this is Nomonhan incident-related".

There is no way if it's not dated or the place is mentioned (often both).

The attribution to an event/place/unit is possibly the most important feature of the cup.

More, the fewer the soldiers involved, the shorter the event (boxer rebellion) , the fewer the cups issued so more rare and

"valuable". If they also have some pale artistical resemblance, better.

In '30s to avoid spionage, the soldiers leaving active service were presented with cups bearing the

name of the unit's commander instead of the unit number. I stumpled on one that was almost surely a Unit 731 one,

but really hadn't the heart to purchase it.

[kusunokimasahige]

Well it seems to be working again...

 

lost a few postings, but nevermind that..

 

heres an obscurity i picked up this weekend...

 

interesting.... especially the year of publication and the publishers...

 

 

 

KM

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

I've a book for learning Nihongo published in Italy 1943.

My father was a bit crazy for those times... :D

[IanB]

My utterly brilliant and super scholarly exposition on Japanese wheel locks and snaphaunces has been lost forever in cyberspace.

Ian Bottomley

[IanB]

Here is another book that was obviously used by the British Diplomatic Service in Japan. The additional slip informing of the death of Emperor Meiji was inside. Also inside is a printed sheet, dated 1910 and issued in Tokyo, giving details of the examination that had to be undertaken for an Interpreter's Allowance of an extra £100 per annum. That involved reading and translating dispatches, newspapers, official documents and the like.

Ian B

[IanB]

Like an idiot I forgot to add the images.

[kusunokimasahige]

Wow that looks like a mighty interesting book! especialy the finds in them !!

 

sometimes its a lucky thing that people stuff their books with clippings and pamphlets...

 

I am thinking of obtaining a translated version of the Taira revolt (Masakado) which i saw in a second hand bookstore the other day..

 

also still looking for the Heike and Gendji monogatari in translated version..

 

KM

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Wow that looks like a mighty interesting book! especialy the finds in them !!

 

sometimes its a lucky thing that people stuff their books with clippings and pamphlets...

 

I am thinking of obtaining a translated version of the Taira revolt (Masakado) which i saw in a second hand bookstore the other day..

 

also still looking for the Heike and Gendji monogatari in translated version..

 

KM

 

I *love* them :D

 

Selection from :

http://www.amazon.com/Genji-Heike-Selec ... 0804722587

 

Genji Monogatari :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tale-Genji-Peng ... 25-4335733

 

this one is very good :

 

"The Tale of the Heike" by McCullogh - Standford University Press (http://www.sup.org) - 1988 , ISBN 0 8047 1803 2

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tale-Heike-Hele ... 0804718032

 

I would suggest this one on Masakado. It reconciled me with Friday :lol: :

 

"The First Samurai - Life and Legend of the warrior rebel Taira Masakado" by Karl Friday - John Wiley & Sons Inc. - 2008

ISBN 978 0 471 760825

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_b/2 ... rai+friday