IanB Posted July 5, 2011 Report Posted July 5, 2011 All, I was watching these items and was tempted to make a bid then forgot. I have a similar pair of tight 'leggings' like the second item. If you look closely they are really just two tubes attached to a waist belt rather than trousers / hakama as such. Mine do not have buttons on the bottom but simple ties. Their name I do not know, but mine came on a dummy under an armour that had not been taken apart since the display had left Japan. They were fitted under a pair of magnificent brocade hakama (ruined by light sadly) in white with Hosokawa kamon in red and blue and with gold tendrils. I think these things are just to keep your legs warm when wearing hakama. Ian Bottomley.
estcrh Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 All, I was watching these items and was tempted to make a bid then forgot. I have a similar pair of tight 'leggings' like the second item. If you look closely they are really just two tubes attached to a waist belt rather than trousers / hakama as such. Mine do not have buttons on the bottom but simple ties. Their name I do not know, but mine came on a dummy under an armour that had not been taken apart since the display had left Japan. They were fitted under a pair of magnificent brocade hakama (ruined by light sadly) in white with Hosokawa kamon in red and blue and with gold tendrils. I think these things are just to keep your legs warm when wearing hakama.Ian Bottomley. Ian, from my observations clothing from around the Edo period or older is really hard to find and there are not many examples online to see, its funny how the better cloth seems to fall apart while the rougher lower quality cloth still holds up, with brocade being the least able to withstand harsh treatment. Did anyone notice this other auction, there is an item that is very rare to find now but at one time must have been quite common. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2245wt_797
Nobody Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 .................... Ian, from my observations clothing from around the Edo period or older is really hard to find and there are not many examples online to see, .......................................... Do you know this site? Ref. http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/index.htm
estcrh Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Do you know this site? Ref. http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/index.htm Moriyama san, I have seen pictures from the site but not the original site, very interesting, thanks. Here is a better picture of the unusual item I mentioned, someone must have seen one of these before.
IanB Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 All, Yes I think I do know what this is but haven't a clue what it is called. Note the long cord / drawstring at one end and the loop at the other. You put things in, draw th end tight and tie the long cord to the loop - you see people in prints carrying such 'bags' on their backs. Also in that lot, what I would have said was a yugote, but for the wrong arm. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Posted July 6, 2011 Here is a better picture of the unusual item I mentioned, someone must have seen one of these before. Eric, I have seen a lady in an Ukiyo-e holding one of these, but it was quite small. How small/large is that?
estcrh Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 This is probably a bukuro of the type mentioned in the translation of this book, Tanki Yoriaku: Hi Ko Ben, 単騎 - 被甲辨, Written by Hayakawa Kyuukei, 1735,Translation by Matt Garbutt, 1911 The Tanki Yoriaku was published in 1735 and translated by Matt Garbutt in 1911. Garbutt notes that the preface is signed by Murai Daiyu Masahiro while Stephen Turnbull credits Hayakawa Kyuukei as the author of the introduction. The title translates as: The Single Horseman - An Explanation of Armour Wearing. http://www.rhinohide.cx/tousando/yoriaku/index.html I do not know what size it is but you can judge from the Kyahan that it is next to, looks to be around 12-18 inches long. Kate-bukuro (provision bag) There are several kinds, as the koshi-oke, koshi-dzuto, men-oke, kouri, etc. For ordinary officers, the kind called koshi-dzuto is recommended; it is made of kan-yori (twisted paper strings) in the style of fine basketwork, and measures about 1 foot by 9.5 inches. It is carried at the right side of the waist. Besides this it is advisable to carry another bag (which is called uchi-gaye), in which are 3 or 4 gou of raw rice (about 1lb). In cold weather baked rice is recommended because it gives warmth
Bugyotsuji Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Posted July 6, 2011 Perhaps ladies had a smaller, refined version then. (?) Sharaku. (Plus three I found hidden in a larger bag at an antiques fair a few months ago.)
estcrh Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Also in that lot, what I would have said was a yugote, but for the wrong arm.Ian Ian, I can not think of what that would be.
kusunokimasahige Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Looks to me like a half finished Kote without the mail and metal plates attached. But it could well be that there is some metal sewn in... strange items Hanamoto san has put up for auction again... Let me add a big thankl you for those costume links !!! KM
Nobody Posted July 6, 2011 Report Posted July 6, 2011 Perhaps ladies had a smaller, refined version then. (?) Sharaku. ........................ The bag which the lady Shigenoi holds in the picture is an amulet case, which proved that the boy in front of her was her separated son. This is a kabuki story. http://smcb.jp/_tas02?taid=583891166 http://www.kabuki21.com/shigenoi_kowakare.php
Bugyotsuji Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Posted July 7, 2011 Ah, so a kind of a lucky charm holder. The three little bags were inside the old silken bag of a priest which was closed with strings in a way that was not easy to open. Here is a photo of Eric's sausage bag. Sasama Sensei calls it an Uchikai-bukuro, but my Daijirin Dictionary calls it an Uchigai, (or Uchigahi, Uchigae), short for Uchigai-bukuro. Differences by provincial dialect? 打飼袋 NB Note the large 馬杓子 Bashakushi （reading? ...his index is not complete) in the background.
Bugyotsuji Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Posted July 7, 2011 PS The Daijirin Dic says an Uchikai/gai-bukuro is a long tubular bag for carrying a) feed for a hawk or a dog, or b) food for a traveller or soldier. Oh, and here is the silk bag which contained the amulet/talisman holders. I was told it must have been part of a priest's clothing. "In good condition for its age". Might adapt it to be an external purse to affix to the Do of my armour.
Bugyotsuji Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Posted July 12, 2011 Was quite lucky at the antiques fair on Sunday morning. Definitely worth getting up at the crack of Dawn (no wisecracks, please...). About 50 or 60 miles from here, and got there at 8:00 am, by which time it was stinking hot and the dealers were muttering near-profanities. Many had draped black desert webbing over their stalls to keep the sun off the customers' necks. The haul included: 1. a half-size Ukiyo-e in bad condition showing a scene from the Kanadehon Chushingura, but I haven't worked out the artist's signature yet. Very cheap. Started repairs on it. 2. A hand-held candle-holder of the three-legged type, rusting iron with a badly damaged Urushi surface. Large, with leaf-shaped legs. Surprisingly cheap. 3. A brass adapter for a Maedate tsunomoto, normally 5~6,000 JPY... for 300 yen! A friend snapped this off me today. 4. A purse with iron striker hanging from a bone cicada Netsuke, with flint stone. Ron's thread tipped me into buying this! This too the dealer was willing to bargain down a little. Some other bits and bobs, but altogether somehow a good day. Today I went up to the north of the prefecture to re-register a gun. The official measurers and recorders had made a mistake on the paperwork, so they didn't charge me for the reissuance. The gun is now 1.6 cm caliber, not "1.3" any more. Back home I also placed a bid on a nice representative example of a regional gun. Small caliber, but famous Mei and quite special bodywork. Fingers crossed on this. Will report as and when.
watsonmil Posted July 14, 2011 Report Posted July 14, 2011 Dear Piers, Sounds like a fine way to spend a morning, ... or all day. It is often the bits and pieces that one finds that can make for the greater reward down the road of restoring an item that is missing just the piece one bought for a few dollars. I 've had it happen many times. Unfortunately here in Canada we didn't have too many Samurai, ... but other goodies that one often finds makes for a pleasant day away from the rigures of work or household maintenance. When I used to visit Europe on occassion, ... a trip to Burmondsey market ( in London ) at 5:00 AM torch in hand was a must. ... Ron Watson
Bugyotsuji Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Posted July 14, 2011 Bermondsey used to be good but I have been disappointed there of late. Seems to have shrunk and atrophied. Best to keep the old memories. There are some other good ones though! (Kempton Park, Horticultural Halls Victoria, Sandown Park, Ardingly, etc.) You are right about getting away from household chores, etc. Scary sometimes how much my daughter and I enjoy combining a trip to the antiques fair with a traditional pub lunch.
estcrh Posted July 15, 2011 Report Posted July 15, 2011 Piers, those prints are great, were are they from? This close up looks like the man pictured might be wearing a bukuro around his waist like the one I pictured, hard to tell though.
Bugyotsuji Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Posted July 15, 2011 Eric, yes, I have little doubt that it is the same 'uchikai-bukuro'. The drawings come from Sasama's dictionary of samurai armour (in Japanese).
estcrh Posted July 15, 2011 Report Posted July 15, 2011 The translation of this site is not to good but it discusses this type of bukuro. http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp/pehota0 ... uro01.html
Justin Grant Posted July 15, 2011 Report Posted July 15, 2011 Piers, those prints are great, were are they from? This close up looks like the man pictured might be wearing a bukuro around his waist like the one I pictured, hard to tell though. Eric The Bugu Jiten and Dai Zukan (Both Sasama) have these and many other wonderful illustrations in them. Do you have these books? I ordered both from Amazon.jp, the Bugu Jiten was about $130 and the Dai Zukan (Smaller 2007 Version) was about $220. Wonderful books http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C ... 874&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%9B%B3%E9%8C ... 004&sr=8-1
Bugyotsuji Posted July 16, 2011 Author Report Posted July 16, 2011 Quick update on the Bizen gun. This gun had some very unusual and fine distinguishing features. Sadly for me the bidding shot up and my carefully woven plan was unravelled. I am sure you will all mourn for me.
kusunokimasahige Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Not only do i mourn for you i will offer a glass of Sake to the kami with the request to make you succeed next time Piers ! KM
Bugyotsuji Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Posted July 17, 2011 Henk-Jan, you are most kind. This is the fairly large candleholder Shokudai that I purchased on Sunday last week. 13 cm high to the disc and 24 cm long. Iron, with remains of a Urushi coating. (The candle is a medium size Wa-ro-soku made from the Ha-ze wax tree. 16 cm long.)
cabowen Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 Nice! There is a very interesting lighting museum in Shizuoka prefecture, in a nice Edo period building, that has everything imaginable related to Edo era lighting (and some things unimaginable)....Check it out if you are ever over that way. Well worth it.....
Bugyotsuji Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Posted July 17, 2011 Cheers for that Chris. Sounds very good. Shizuoka City, even?
cabowen Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 No, not Shizuoka city, somewhere in Shizuoka...it is in a rather quaint, small town along the main old road through the prefecture along the coastal area. I can't remember the name but imagine you should be able to locate it without too much trouble...... EDIT: Here it is: Tokaido Light Museum (Tokaido Akari no Hakubutsukan) in Ai no Shuku Nishi Kurasawa on the Old Tokaido..... Lighting is from 1868 to 1926.... Here is a link to some of the attractions in the area. I lived not too far from here and it was a nice place to spend the weekend on occasion, drinking and relaxing with my shokunin friends: http://www.shizuoka-cvb.or.jp/tour_guide/en/maps/yui.php
Nobody Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 Ref. Tokaido AKARI Museum http://m-imajo.main.jp/m-imajo/akari/ak ... eum-e.html
Bugyotsuji Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Posted July 17, 2011 Yui is famous as one of the stations on the old Tokaido. It looks like a wonderful place to visit.
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