Stephen Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 but it looks mighty fine on the display stand! Good to have you back Bugs, having withdrawls for your hunt and find....PICS PLEASE!!!
Bugyotsuji Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Posted October 1, 2009 Stephen, thanks for the interest. Watch this space. As soon as I can find some time I'll take the pics and show what it is based on. Right, these pics show the original article. Centerfold of 'Tsuba to Koshirae' by a Mr 雄一 Hiroi, Tokyo, Showa 62 (1987). Note the Tsuba is shown as for Tachi, as in the first half of the book... 1
Bugyotsuji Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Posted October 2, 2009 And here is the 'inherited' Nagamaki. If you want to trim these shots, Brian, please feel free. I wouldn't know how...I just keep the old camera stoppered way down and pray.
Stephen Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Yu the Man man, the Nihonto/antiques gods love you...very cool my friend.
Nobody Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 So the next thing I hear is, "Hey, I've been given a repro. It's yours if you want it," the guy says. "The nagamaki was made by a Salari-man. He was training as a swordsmith but never completed his apprenticeship. It's completely accurate, blade, Nakago, Tsuba, habaki, Tsuka and Saya, down to the Ishi-zuki, based on a famous Nagamaki, but the steel has not been tempered, so it has no edge, and thus needs no paperwork." Piers, I strongly fear that the existence and/or the possession of the nagamaki (repro) are illegal in Japan. If the blade is made of steel, not being tempered or having no edge does not matter for applying the Japanese sword laws.
Bugyotsuji Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Posted October 2, 2009 So the next thing I hear is, "Hey, I've been given a repro. It's yours if you want it," the guy says. "The nagamaki was made by a Salari-man. He was training as a swordsmith but never completed his apprenticeship. It's completely accurate, blade, Nakago, Tsuba, habaki, Tsuka and Saya, down to the Ishi-zuki, based on a famous Nagamaki, but the steel has not been tempered, so it has no edge, and thus needs no paperwork." Piers, I strongly fear that the existence and/or the possession of the nagamaki (repro) are illegal in Japan. If the blade is made of steel, not being tempered or having no edge does not matter for applying the Japanese sword laws. Thank you Koichi san. Is it a question of the material used then? When I say "it has no edge", I mean that you can run your finger along the edge of the blade. It is rounded, and not sharp. To tell you the truth I don't even know if it is steel. I just used the word loosely to mean metal. I did ask about whether it needed paperwork because I was worried, but I was assured that it is legal in Japan. I will double check immediately. I understood that it would be against the law to sharpen it, and I certainly would not be tempted to do that in Japan. If there is such a problem as you suggest, then I will either give it back, or hand it to the authorities. I have no desire to possess anything illegal here.
Nobody Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Thank you Koichi san. Is it a question of the material used then? When I say "it has no edge", I mean that you can run your finger along the edge of the blade. It is rounded, and not sharp. To tell you the truth I don't even know if it is steel. I just used the word loosely to mean metal. I think that the main factors for the judgment are its shape and material. From the authorities' view, having no edge does not matter because you can easily sharpen the edge with a stone or a grinder whenever you want.
IanB Posted October 3, 2009 Report Posted October 3, 2009 Piers, I thought I had posted a reply of envy on this thread but it has wandered off into cyberspace. Wow! I like that even if it isn't hardened. There are a couple of differences to the nagamaki you saw in the Armouries. The first is that the blade of the one I bought in Kyoto does not have grooves, but is still very thinned down along the back to keep the weight down. Secondly, the ishi-zuki is totally different. It consists of a similar oval socket but the base terminates in a large fork. I'm sure the koshirae of the Armouries' nagamaki is late Edo, but the ishi-zuke seems very old, showing considerable corrosion. The lower part of the tang has that type of overall granular pitting you get when iron is exposed to air for centuries but kept dry. Higher up it has the look of a more normal nakago. I came to the conclusion that it had been stored for a very long time in a saya but out of the shaft. It was then decided to remount it, presumably when there was a revival of archaic armours and weapons in the late 18th century. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Posted October 11, 2009 Many thanks for the followup info, Ian. Interesting about keeping the weight down... Since I came back to Japan I have inherited a scroll listing the gravestones of Western Army leaders (?) who fought at the battle of Sekigahara in 1600. It mentions Ishida Mitsunari. The date on it is odd though, and thinking it may be a fake, I am tempted to post a photo here and ask for help. This evening I pulled out a backgammon (西洋すごろく） block for a clean and discovered that I had never really researched the Mon on the ends. Seven gold Mon on black lacquer. Three Ume in a circle, Mitsu-yose-yokomi-ume 三つ寄せ横見梅. Probably belonged to a Daimyo, someone once told me. Wonder which? I have collected various Edo Period dice and counters over the years to complete the set. Last night a friend showed me a 采配 Saihai he had recently bought; I managed to persuade him to sell it to me. Black lacquer with silver ends and a big bunch of cut paper strips. They do not come up so often, it seems. The silverwork has gone completely black; I am sorely tempted to clean it if such can be done gently. There is a sort of Mon on it, but I can't find any record of such a Mon, so it might be just a decoration. Oh, and I was given a rather splendid Nihonto cover which originally contained a long Tachi. Very pleased with this. Now all I need is a sword to put in it... :lol:
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 Oh, and I was given a rather splendid Nihonto cover which originally contained a long Tachi. Very pleased with this. Now all I need is a sword to put in it... :lol: C'mon Piers, now a pic is mandatory...
Bugyotsuji Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Posted October 11, 2009 Oh, and I was given a rather splendid Nihonto cover which originally contained a long Tachi. Very pleased with this. Now all I need is a sword to put in it... :lol: C'mon Piers, now a pic is mandatory... The sword cover... ?
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 The sword cover... ? I've understand Fukuro, was I wrong ?
IanB Posted October 11, 2009 Report Posted October 11, 2009 Piers, If memory serves ( I wasn't actually there you understand) Ishida Mitsunari did a runner about 3.00pm at Seki ga Hara. The remnants of the Shimazu army being the last of the Western army standing and facing thousands of Tokugawa forces. They performed a full frontal attack and burst through, making it back to Satsuma. Strangely they were not penalised later. Mitsunari was hunted down and beheaded on the Rokujo ga Hara execution ground in Kyoto within days of the battle. He would therefore have died around mid Sept 1600. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Posted October 12, 2009 Ah, that fits a few more of the pieces together. Also, I had heard that in order for the Shimazu mostly leadership to make their breakthrough, much on horseback, they used their matchlock pistols; this became a classic example of how Bajo-zutsu/Tanzutsu could indeed be a useful weapon, depending on the right circumstances. Here are some shots of the Fukuro for Carlo, surprisingly difficult to take. The bottom end is actually square! I have placed a Katana alongside for size reference. (2 shaku, 2 sun, 2 bu, 2 rin)
Bugyotsuji Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Posted October 12, 2009 For Ian and Koichi san, here are some of the scroll. (Rubbing?) You can see the problem with the date. Brian, I will go back and erase some of these pics in due course... if they are all right for the moment. (?)
Bugyotsuji Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Posted October 12, 2009 Some of the writing, rubbed from somewhere? The date is on the left, and the headings on the right, centre, and lower right. Ishida Mitsunari is mentioned in the middle, and I have tried to get a shot of the whole sentence.
Nobody Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 Some of the writing, rubbed from somewhere? The date is on the left, and the headings on the right, centre, and lower right. Ishida Mitsunari is mentioned in the middle, and I have tried to get a shot of the whole sentence. The date may be written with Qing's era name. 嘉慶二十二年歳次丁丑小春下浣 (Kakei ni-ju-ni nen Saiji Hinoto-Ushi, Koharu/Shoshun Gekan) – The end of October in 1817
Bugyotsuji Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Posted October 12, 2009 Some of the writing, rubbed from somewhere? The date is on the left, and the headings on the right, centre, and lower right. Ishida Mitsunari is mentioned in the middle, and I have tried to get a shot of the whole sentence. The date may be written with Qing's era name. 嘉慶二十二年歳次丁丑小春下浣 (Kakei ni-ju-ni nen Saiji Hinoto-Ushi, Koharu/Shoshun Gekan) – The end of October in 1817 Oh, thank you, that is brilliant Koichi san. This has been bothering me. Is this way of dating common, do you think? What do you think this scroll is? Did someone go to Sekigahara at the end of Edo (Keio Gan-nen 1865) and rub a stone plaque which had been erected in 1817?
Nobody Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 As far as I could guess, the writing was composed by 近藤西涯 (Kondo Seigai) who was a Confucianist in Bizen-han, and calligraphed by 唐山姑蘇楊少谿 (place and name of a Chinese calligrapher?).
Bugyotsuji Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Posted October 12, 2009 So let me get this right. 1. The Tokugawa allowed the West to erect a stone monument in memory of the beaten army. 2. Kondo, a Confucianist from Bizen (any connection with Shizutani Gakkou, I wonder?) was chosen to compose the writing for the slab. 3. A Chinese calligrapher was asked to do the writing itself. 4. The monument was carved and erected in 1817, the wording indicating the places where the Kubi-tsuka mounds were to be found. (?) 5. In 1865 someone did a rubbing/Oshigata of the monument and created a scroll. Does this sound reasonable so far? :lol: (I wonder if the monument is still there...)
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 Fashinating finding. Thanks for the fukuro
IanB Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 Piers, The monument may well be still there. I have been a couple of times and there are markers and flags all over the town indicating the position of the various armies headquarters. The local museum had a few relics dug up in peoples gardens, I remember seeing a shakudo kozuka with a gold dragon and a very decayed 62 plate helmet bowl. They also had, on my first visit, a large-bore gun with an oak barrel bound with iron bands having a 65mm bore and weighing 13kg. Not a cannon but a very large hand gun. The label said it had been made for Oda Nobunaga by Kuki Yoshitaka (a ship's captain) for the attack on Isshiyama Honganji. It was later used at Seki ga Hara by Ishida Mitsunari. I made a little sketch of it at the time and noted the trigger was above the lock sticking out above the lockplate behind the serpentine. Even more interesting one exactly like it was sold in the UK about 1994 or thereabouts. I only saw it in a catalogue some time later. On my second visit to Seki ga Hara a few years later the gun wasn't there and I failed to convey my query as to what had happened to it. If you go, do not miss 'Seki ga Hara War Land'. It is a treat beyond description. They do have a small museum with some very good items but last time I went it had a very decayed look. Ian
Jean Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 a large-bore gun with an oak barrel bound with iron bands having a 65mm bore and weighing 13kg Ian, It is almost what was called "un fusil de rempart" / "battlement rifle"
IanB Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 Jean, It was exactly that. But the interesting thing was the wooden barrel. In the 'War Land' museum is a cannon made from a tree trunk, hollowed out and bound around with twisted bamboo. The inside was well burnt so I suppose it was used. I saw another one in Sendai Museum that I think dated to the end of the Edo period. What you shot from them is anyone's guess - I suppose round stones. Ian
Jean Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 Ian, I suppose round stones I think you are right, undoubtedly. I wonder if "Shrapnell" (I am meaning bit and odds projectiles - not unlike buckshots) was used/known at this time
Bugyotsuji Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Posted October 12, 2009 Good question about what they fired. Possibly grape, or even those ball-shaped fireworks. (Will check this out.) I've seen examples of them here and there, including the one in Sendai. The Westerners arriving at the end of Edo also came across them, I believe. Our Teppo-tai members went to Seki-ga-hara one year but they came back convinced that they were each haunted by some terrible ghost. Some of them fell ill or had accidents and the whole story of the trip to Seki-ga-hara would come out again. Whenever I express a desire to go for the next national enactment there, they all look gloomy and say how lucky I was to have missed the last trip.
John A Stuart Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 In regards to 唐山姑蘇楊少谿. 唐山 Tang Shan is a city in Hebei province. 姑蘇 Gui su, maybe ?, remembering an aunt [on the father's side (father's sister)], whose name was, 楊少谿 Yang Shao-shi. I am not sure of 蘇 which is in the sense of 'revive or resurrect'. It is a female's name though. John
Bugyotsuji Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Posted October 14, 2009 Thank you John. Not sure yet how that fits, but it is a possible way forward. I think I will print all this information out and show it to some Chinese people at the Confucius Institute. Not that the scroll is worth much, I guess, but for the joy of the game.
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 Milt, wherever you're now, you're not forgotten . These are for our "Hawks hunter" : 1
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