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Posted

This week's report is another general roundup. Met a Kabuto and Menpo collector today in the local historical sword & gun shop, a Belgian named Philippe Lehmann (?), but had to rush off, so didn't get his card. Advertised this NMB site to him first though...

 

This evening collected the Handachi koshirae which was being colour/color coordinated. The Tachi Tsuba was a bright yellow shiny thing, a Go-taiten virtual toy, and it has now been patinated to suit the furnishings. It looks splendid now, with a blackened Mimi. The fuchi and kashira were brightly polished silver, but he has darkened them to go with the silver fastenings on the Saya. The whole package looks much better and more suitable for our displays.

 

He had also fixed the 20 Monme gun barrel for me, removing the 'silver' plug that someone had left stuck to it. "Not silver", he said. "It was steel". Weird. He cleaned out the metal, grew some nice rust there, burnt it and oiled it, and now you cannot tell where that irritating spoil mark was. Full marks. He gave me a dry cloth and told me to wipe it down for a week, until the rust stops growing. He says he loves this time of year, the rainy season, because the rust grows so well, and he refused to take any payment off me. "I just love growing rust", he said...

 

On the way home I dropped into another friend's place to pick up a genuine Tachi Tsuba which he was keeping for me. He had just bought two at the auction and said I could choose one. One was yellow brass with little Aoi Mon, four blades in a cross shape and some kind of Nanako etching, but no O-zeppa. Quite expensive. The other slightly smaller and black, but quite fat with two large O-zeppa engraved with vines. Came from a famous collector west of here. Hummed and hawed, but finally went for the latter. Couldn't afford both. He showed me how to fit the Tsuba firmly in the correct place on the Nakago, using little plugs fashioned from chopsticks in lieu of sekigane. My first real Tachi Tsuba! :clap: Oh, and he had a spare plain vertical wooden Tachi/Katana stand which he sold me, genuine Edo, with a locking/unlocking wooden upright. 8)

 

Very pleased with the double trip this evening. What all have you lot stumbled across recently? :glee:

Posted

Well, I have a theory that a good description removes the need for a photo, but here are some shots of what I was talking about above.

The first is the Go-taiten ceremonial Tachi Meiji/Taisho? tsuba which I had patinated to remove some of the glare.

The second is a genuine Tachi tsuba from... Edo? with large O-zeppa. This needs cleaning, but I am afraid that if I remove the black patination on the o-zeppa these too will turn bright brass yellow. The tsuba itelf seems to be an alloy of copper and brass? with bits of oxidized colour showing through in spots. This too may need some kind of clever clean.

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Posted

Here you can see the chopstick wedges which I used to hold the tsuba in place on the Tsunagi for my re-enactment sword. The koshirae is something I purchased recently but some bits were missing, so I had to have the tsuka re-bound with green Tsuka maki, and the silver fuchi and kashira repatinated to match the silver fittings on the saya. You can also see the stand which I bought last night.

 

Brian, if all this is too heavy, please feel free to crop as I don't know how!!! :freak: :thanks:

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Posted
might have missed something here but let me get my head around this, you can carry a live gun but you have to carry a dummy sword? :crazy: :roll: ;)

 

Nuts, isn't it! Actually we can't even carry a live gun much anymore. The police are getting so strict it isn't funny. The last place on 14th June we had volunteer uni students to carry the gun cases from the changing rooms to the field. The red guncovers we were carrying contained bamboo staves to look like guns. Then a special security team surrounded us and escorted us to and from the display pitch. Only within the coned/taped-off area are we allowed to do our thing. Members of the public sometimes try to hold the guns and the police don't like it. I have also had people pull my sword out suddenly when I was surrounded by people, so in the interests of safety it makes no sense to carry a real blade. Everyone has tsunagi, although in the past I know previous members sometimes broke the rules. Come to think of it, on top of all the kit and clobber, a wooden blade is thankfully much lighter.

 

PS They used me on the poster again this year, an old photo though...

http://toki-week.com/

Posted

Found a black lacquer box today, battered & filthy dirty; managed to persuade the dealer to let me have it at his best 'friendly price', but when I got home and started cleaning the 'brasswork', I discovered that it is copper with a thin layer of gold on top. There are Mon in the metalword fittings, Four-leaf Mokko, and 5/7 Kiri Mon. The box is fairly large and has strong metal handles for carrying to and from Edo in the Sankin Kotai (started in 1635). Here are two shots, one showing the dirty face, and one with windows opening up in the dirt.

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Posted

you need to send me that straight away, ill pay postage :rotfl:

 

after cleaning give us a close up Mr Mills

 

Question does the removal of the patina reduce the value of such a box?

Posted

Hi Gang,

So, I have a question for you guys living in Japan.

While reading some or Pier's great posts I came to wonder why it is that The Japanese lawmakers have not yet changed the sword laws to more represent the history of their nation.

I know that the west forced many of these laws on the country durring the reconstruction.

And I realize that many generations of Japanese people have been brought up with these laws, and seem to fear weapons of any kind. With the exception of the sword people I have met, most other Japanese folk were so anti gun/sword, that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Most knew nothing about the samurai, except for a few fanciful stories. Or what they may have seen in a shrine/museum

I would think that this was mostly due to the brainwashing forced on young people after the war.

I'm glad the see Piers and his group doing good living history things to educate the people of Japan of their heritage. Young people today seem to know very little about history. Here in the US it is likely as bad as anywhere.

But at least we can freely take our antique guns out and have Rev./Civil War battles, with hundreds of people, without being surrounded by police.

In Japan, it is the sword laws that have not been changed, that cracks me up the most.

I guess it just a great way to tax the people.

How much does it cost to licence a dozen swords in Japan? Is it a yearly thing, or forever.

Just wondering??? :dunno:

Posted

Piers, What a coincidence - I have a box almost exactly the same. I think the mounts on mine are just decorated with karakusa and a sort of nanako. Mine has retained two long and very heavy cords of red silk fitted to the rings on the front and back faces. I suppose they were to add an air of luxury because, like yours, there is a pair of staples for a lock. Mine is lined inside with white paper flecked with gold and has gilt rings fitted to the base to tie whatever was being carried from moving about. I use it to store an armour in.

Ian Bottomley

Posted

Stephen's question first about removing patina and whether it affects the value. In this case I did not pay a lot for it. If I clean it up, it will be worth a bit more. Within Japan's marketplace, that is. On a grander scale, however, you could argue that this should be in a museum and professionally cared for as a piece of history. Possibly on the world market it may be more appreciated than it is by the majority of Japanese today. Would it sell in London for example? Japanese antiques do not seem to be very popular. A difficult one indeed.

 

I spoke to a friend this morning and told him about what lay under the dirt and he said that he had actually seen the box before me and had considered buying it himself. But he passed on the chance. Nowhere to put it. The problem is that people simply do not have room in their houses/apartments for objects like this. I have another largish highly-decorated nesting lacquer box from the Muromachi Period which should be worth a lot, but I paid peanuts for it. Women tend not to want them in the house. It sits in my office. Lacquerwork, even though it may have taken countless people-hours to produce, tends to fetch no premium, even with intricate metalwork. If the piece is not perfect, it will get thrown out and junked. Someone has made a decision with this Hasami-bako that it has crossed the line of no-return.

 

I believe otherwise and want to rescue it, but it may only be a temporary reprieve, as with the old Katana-bako earlier in this thread. If I die suddenly, the wife may just chuck it all as the easy way out.

Posted

Mark's series of questions can perhaps be answered better by the sword people here.

 

To buy a registered sword you don't need to pay any tax other than the nominal 5% consumption tax.

 

If you find a sword and declare the find and then have it registered you will have to pay 20 or 30,000 yen, but it's not a lot. The heavy problems occur if someone dies and very valuable swords come under probate. To get around this people lend their swords to museums to avoid having to pay death duties on them.

 

There is another aspect to Mark's questions that I cannot properly answer. Japanese have a dread and a fascination with blades and guns. In TV dramas the camera catches the gleam of the steel of a kitchen knife or a pair of scissors about to be used to attack someone, and plays with the light in a way that in the West would puzzle us. When they go abroad, one of the popular things to do is visit a shooting range and fire real live bullets. The continued existence of Boryoku-dan gangs and right-wing extremists who would like to use these weapons as the feeling takes them, means ever present danger. The laws become super-strict, as if the people themselves are not trusted. (The drug laws are similar too.) And yet there is still this loophole to allow collectors to own them. And still you get accidents, and nutcases who suddenly attack someone with a blade. Almost as if the heightened tension of everyday life suddenly spills over into uncontrollable horror. There is so much bound up in this, and the Japanese identity, that this may not be the place to discuss it, and perhaps I am not the one to do it.

 

PS A couple of weeks ago I had some of the students carry the gun boxes to the classroom, and after a short warning about not ever pointing any kind of gun at someone else, even an 'unloaded' one and in play, and a quick handout on the history and construction of Tanegashima-type matchlock muskets, they got to see the real thing(s). There are three Chinese students and one Korean exchange student in this class, but regardless of nationality, their written comments afterwards showed that they were quite struck with what they saw.

Posted

Ian, good to hear from you. Hoping you have some free time in early August, or early September and I might just jump into a car and whiz up to Leeds.

 

Yesterday I was advised by our leader to add legs to the box and use it as a Yoroi-bitsu! (Not planning to go that far, but he would certainly do it himself without hesitation, to the disgust of another of our members, a well-known collector of Kabuto and Menpo, who keeps muttering about destruction of Japan's 'bunka-zai'.) Even without the legs, however, I am planning to use it for armour just as you do. The legs would get the box up off the floor to a decent height, and allow air to pass underneath in the humid season; stopping woodworm etc going from the floorboards up into the box bottom, so I will probably raise it up on ceramic tiles and blocks.

 

Yours sounds even more gorgeous, Ian, especially with the silk(?) cords. You are like a mirage, always many steps ahead of me!!!

Posted
If I die suddenly, the wife may just chuck it all as the easy way out.

I'll PAY shipping. lol

 

please show detail photos when ready, thanks

Posted

Piers, Should you wish to come up to the wild and windswept north with its satanic mills, cloth caps, whippets and uncouth pigeon fanciers who say little except 'E by gun', I will be waiting for you [All that crap about the north was to reinforce prejudices]. Seriously, if you can make it do I can show you around. No, I'm not ahead of you, I have just been around longer.

 

New thread: I have just failed to acquire a katana zutsu that appeared on ebay. It proved too rich for my slender purse. Now here is the question. What on earth were they really for. Yes, they are a case for storing a sword, and would obviously give it protection. Over the years I've seen a few, but with one exception, they have all been for katana. The exception is a complete set in the Peabody Museum, all done in bright blue raden with gold mon; it comprises matching cases for a daisho and a gun. Why don't you see more of these cases for short swords - didn't wakizashi need the same protection? I accept that one wore one's wakizashi at all times, but the same was true of the katana except indoors. Were these katana zutsu used to put the katana in when entering somewhere? Were they used when travelling? If so why wasn't the katana being worn? Was it for a second katana? I don't know the answers to these questions - does anyone?

Ian

Posted

Ian, I actually have seen more Daishô cases than single ones. Somewhere in my books is a period painting of a Daimyô Gyôretsu 大名行列 with attendants carrying the lord's spare swords in Katanazutsu, but I can't find it at the moment.

Posted

Hey Ian,

Is that the peabody museum in Ma. ? I'll be up in W. Peabody in a couple weeks, and would like to know if they have much Nihonto stuff. I was there many times as a kid, but don't remember many Swords/fittings, from Japan. Great nautical Museum though.

Thanks guys for the Japanese sword law info.

Mark G

Posted

Mark, Yes, Salem in Ma. I went about 20 years ago and was given a chance to look at the material in the basement store. They have some staggering items, some collected by Edward Morse if memory serves. He went to Japan in 1877 and acquired shed-loads of stuff. I remember seeing paper ephemera from the Morse collection in the Edo Museum in Tokyo because little survived in Japan itself.

The part-day I spent at the Peabody was all a bit of a rushed blur - I remember drawer after drawer of abumi, many helmets and parts of armours but only one superb mail and plate folding armour that was virtually complete. There were some staff weapons - some obviously bought brand new because the shafts were still totally clean. To be honest I can not remember much sword related material. I suspect there may be a tie-up with Boston and that any such material may have been transferred there. I don't know this for a fact - just speculating.

Ian

Posted

Mark, Further to the above, I've just looked Morse up on Wikipedia. Seems he was Keeper of Pottery at Boston in 1890 and was Director of Peabody from1880 - 1914. This would account for the distribution of his collection.

Ian

Posted

Thanks Ian :beer:

I may go buy if I have the time, my kids have never been. It is a fun little Museum.

In between runs to the clam shack in Essex, that is. :D

Mark

Posted
If I die suddenly, the wife may just chuck it all as the easy way out.

I'll PAY shipping. lol

 

please show detail photos when ready, thanks

 

Stephen, apologies for not addressing this. I wasn't quite sure what to say. Since then I have spent several hours on it, but the process is very slow. Since I am not 100% sure what the materials are, I have been fairly gentle. On the 'brasswork' hot water and soap applied with two types of toothbrush, followed by application of a very fine compound with a towel. The overall black coating gradually turns into a russet sunset colour, revealing a series of reds and blacks and golds underneath that polish up to a burnished, nicely dappled surface. I do not want to remove any of the plating, or any more of the patination, so I reckon this is a good medium place to stop. I have rubbed a light film of camellia oil on the parts that are now in this semi polished state. Many happy hours to go! The photos should come in due course.

Posted

Last night I was bringing some life back to the Urushi lacquerwork by lightly buffing with camellia oil when suddenly in an angle of the light I noticed the outlines of two large Mon which must once have graced the surface of the lid. Whether they were erased through constant use, or whether they have been deliberately defaced, is too early to say.

 

One side is a Yotsu-me, and the other is 5/7 Kiri Mon. So, I did some digging around the books today and it looks as though this box belonged to one of the four branches of the Kyogoku family.

Posted

Piers, Like most of this type of kanamono, those on your box will be gilded copper. I have seem a film of similar pieces being re-gilded for a shrine. It involved coating the cleaned copper with a mercury salt, to deposit a thin film of mercury on the surface, them applying gold leaf. After heating to drive off the mercury, the gold is then burnished (incredibly dangerous of course because of the mercury vapour).

They can be cleaned by using solutions of chelating agents, but I always use ammonia since its more easily obtained. Use a very weak solution, to which is added a drop if detergent. Just wipe the kanamono with a cotton bud moistened with the solution and it will take off the tarnish reasonably easily, even when it is green with corrosion. It appears that the coating of gold is sometimes a bit porous and the copper corrosion products bleed up through the holes and spread onto the surface. It is essential to get rid of all of the ammonia afterwards with repeated applications of plain water. It is also important to make sure you don't get the solution on the lacquer. Works for me.

Ian Bottomley

Posted

Ian, that's brilliant. Many thanks. I have been working so hard on it that my right shoulder is semi dislocated and quite sore today, and the results are slow. One side is almost 'finished'. Luckily they've had a rerun of old cowboy movies so I've been polishing and watching, watching and polishing.

 

I was toying with using something stronger on a corner to see what would happen, as I've tried to err on the side of conservatism, but I will now follow your instructions and see what happens. What 'detergent' are you referring to? Something acid, alkali, soapy?

 

Incidentally, these are the Kote undersleeves I was mentioning a couple of pages back. Page 45, a couple from the top. Why aren't there post numbers on this site, I wonder?

There seems to be a steel shoulder piece inside. The frills are interesting...

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Posted

Piers, I just use a drop of washing-up liquid as the detergent. The ammonia is of course alkaline. Start with a very weak mixture, just in case, and be patient. If its not working add a drop more ammonia and try again.

Wow!!! - now they are a pair of sleeves. I have seen similar items before but never owned any. The frills are of course derived from the European ruffs of the 17th century and you sometimes see them around the collars of posh armours and elsewhere. Just what these might be used for I do not know. I've seen similar described as sleeves for archery. Does the text explain their purpose?

Ian

Posted
Piers, I just use a drop of washing-up liquid as the detergent. The ammonia is of course alkaline. Start with a very weak mixture, just in case, and be patient. If its not working add a drop more ammonia and try again.

Wow!!! - now they are a pair of sleeves. I have seen similar items before but never owned any. The frills are of course derived from the European ruffs of the 17th century and you sometimes see them around the collars of posh armours and elsewhere. Just what these might be used for I do not know. I've seen similar described as sleeves for archery. Does the text explain their purpose?

Ian

 

Thanks again. I can picture it a bit better now. No, the text doesn't say any more about what they were used for, as far as I can see, but it does suggest that there should have been a Tsuba in the box, which was not there when I bought these sleeves. Archery would make sense. What really caught my eye was the hidden Christian mark, the very one I had been looking for...the Hachisuka clan is famous for their swastika, but how many know their Daimyos were Kakuri Kirishitan?

Posted

Wow!

Those kote sleeves are something. That Samurai was about as Fop as it gets. Not sure I have ever seen pleatted ruffle cuffs on a kote sleeve before. Like Ian said major western influence.

Very cool though. I think Ian's likely right archery.

Mark G

Posted

Well, to clarify a little, it says nothing apart from what I wrote earlier: on the top of the lid it says that they are sleeves for wearing underneath the Kote armour/armor.

Posted

Before using any of Ian's magic ammonia solution, here is an illustration of the cleaning process to date. One side shows the Hasami-bako virtually untouched. The other side is after many hours of hard work. Sure it looks scrappy, but there is a warmth in it that is not really visible in the photo... (BTW, please ignore the top as that was an earlier experimental attempt.)

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