1853 Enfield Markings

[pcfarrar]

Does anyone know if the markings on this Enfield 1853 carbine are Chinese or Japanese?

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

[Peter Bleed]

"Number 5613  Hiroshima-ken"

This looks like a Meiji ers gun registration number

Peter

[pcfarrar]

Thanks for the help Peter. 

 

Its an Artillery carbine with 3 groove rifling, the lock is dated 1866.

[Bugyotsuji]

No. 5,063, (2,063?) probably registered in the first and biggest post-Edo round-up and registration in Meiji 5.

[Peter Bleed]

Holy crap! I've struck out from Friday on this one.

I am spending the day packing up my sword library in preparation for a move to be closer to our granddaughters. I opened the initial message as a break and took a quick hip shot that was wide of the mark. - TWICE. OMG. Then I thought I would help by seeing what Francis Allen and the Banzai guys had to say about Enfield carbines, But I think I packed that (terrific) volume a couple of days ago. Peter get a copy of it, I am sure that your will find it useful (even if I ain't)

 Steve, can you change my name on the earlier messages?

Peter

PS. And BTW, do you have any idea what a sword library weighs?

[pcfarrar]

Thanks Peter, I will try and get a copy of that book.

 

I will also post some more photos when I have the gun next weekend.

[Peter Bleed]

Peter,

This page describes the Banzai volume on early imported arms in Japan. I admire it deeply, altho I have the feeling that as collectors get organized - worldwide - it may become a milestone long passed.

http://www.castle-thunder.com/japaneseimportedarms/

And I cannot find my copy! It is somewhere in those boxes of books.

Peter

[pcfarrar]

I found an old book that stated that the clan in Hiroshima were trained in British military tactics in the late 1860s. I presume this gun could possibly be a result of that training? Or is it more likely to have been a private purchase by a samurai?

[pcfarrar]

I discovered the gun has another inscription on the brass butt plate. Looks like a rack number (5857) from being stored in an armoury perhaps?

 

There is also another line of kanji on the stock but it is very feint and hard to see but definitely ends with a yama.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Peter,

 

I'm sorry but I can't see your "yama" ( 山) I can see a serial number five thousand, six hundred and thirteen then the "ban" kanji 番 and then three further kanji, the first two of which I think are Hiroshima (廣島) but I can't get the third one. 

 

Best,

John

[Shugyosha]

Sorry Peter and Peter, I should have read to the top of the thread.

 

Kind regards,

John

[pcfarrar]

The other inscription isn't quite visible in the photo. It goes from top to bottom at the base of the stock. It's too far gone to translate I think.

[Bugyotsuji]

Try us!

[pcfarrar]

Try us!

You can see what looks like a Yama quite clearly but the rest above is too heavily worn out to see.

[pcfarrar]

I purchased the Francis Allan book "Japanese Imported Arms of the Early Meiji Period". Was well worth the price as it is an excellent reference.

 

In the book there is an Enfield Cavalry carbine with the same Hiroshima registration marks. I contacted the author and he was quite surprised to see another and suspected both carbines may have come from the same Han unit.

[Bugyotsuji]

Interesting follow-up story! Many thanks.

[Mainegundealer]

Trying to get this translated. This is stamped on an 1853 Enfield barrel. Is there anyone that can help?

 

 

[Bazza]

Guess what I discovered under our noses???!!!  From 2012 no less - a necro post of great value...

 

 

I just popped this into google to find it Japanese imported arms meiji Japan

Good hit.

 

BaZZa.

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

 

Very interesting gun. I have an Enfield with the rare cutlass bayonet, they came also with the yathagan bayonet that was more common. My example have, beside the registration numbers, a beatiful inlay along the barrel.

 

Anthony

[redhugster]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:59 AM, Mainegundealer said:

Trying to get this translated. This is stamped on an 1853 Enfield barrel. Is there anyone that can help?

 

 

Sorry - I've joined in a little late I'm afraid..I can't translate Japanese, but I do know quite a lot about Enfield Rifles - Patterns 1853 to 1865. From the photos you have given of the lock and side of the barrel your gun was made in Leige, Belgium - a major european manufacturing area at the time. (The ELG stamp tells me this as does the 'Pillar' stamp just infront of the nipple). The Crown is of course not the British Crown of Queen Victoria either.  If you (carefully) take the barrel off there will also be manfacturing marks on the underside of the barrel. It is unlikly this gun was owned by the British Government as it is a contract piece without any British proof marks. Best Jon

[redhugster]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:16 PM, Anthony de Vos said:

Hi!

 

Very interesting gun. I have an Enfield with the rare cutlass bayonet, they came also with the yathagan bayonet that was more common. My example have, beside the registration numbers, a beatiful inlay along the barrel.

 

Anthony

Now that Anthony is a nice gun. Exellent find! :0)