Difficult Netsuke Mei?

[Bugyotsuji]

Can anyone read this signature on the back of a Hannya mask? Thanks in advance.

http://forums.netsuke.org/tool/view/mb/ ... &id=480625

[Jim Lewis]

You might try the netsuke forum . . .

 

http://forums.netsuke.org/tool/mb/netsuke

[Bugyotsuji]

  Jim Lewis said:

You might try the netsuke forum . . .

 

http://forums.netsuke.org/tool/mb/netsuke

 

Hahahaha... that's where I got it from, Jim! Look at the link. :lol: No-one over there can answer the question, so I brought it over here...

[Markus]

Hi Piers,

 

My guess would be "Masahiro" (政広), but if the sôsho is not conscientiously written - like here or maybe like always - it could be nearly anything.

[Bugyotsuji]

  Markus said:

Hi Piers,

 

My guess would be "Masahiro" (政広), but if the sôsho is not conscientiously written - like here or maybe like always - it could be nearly anything.

 

Thanks Markus. Much appreciated. I'll go back and check this evening to see if it fits, and tell you what I find out, if anything.

 

There are two Masahiros mentioned in Ueda Reikichi, both starting with 正, and one ending with 弘　and the other with 廣. Could be a later artist, though.

 

PS I like your avatar. I had a particularly fine kabuto-wari with the kikusui mon in gold and silver done beautifully on the 'blade'. (Sold it to a collector friend)

[Guido]

In my experience, this kind of "scratched" (rather than properly carved), hard to decipher "Mei" in a cursive style is typical for carvers' marks in workshops. Not really a Mei per se, just marking one's carvings to count the output come payday. Also - although pictures can be deceiving - the ivory looks "smoked", a method to produce an artificial patina.

[Nobody]

Although I am 99 % UNSURE, I dare to guess that.

 

晶家 (Akiie or Masaie?)

[k morita]

Hi guys,

 

I believe that "Okina" and "Tomi ".

 

Bugyotsuji-san

Is the other side of the netsuke old man's face(Okina)?

 

k morita

[Bugyotsuji]

http://forums.netsuke.org/tool/post/net ... id=2347051

 

This is the original thread. It's a Hannya mask, I think.

 

I too am not too happy with the material itself, as Guido points out. It looks a bit like resin? I don't even feel comfortable with the expression on the face... almost too close to something in a Spiderman comic. Someone on another forum suggested 'Rantei' for the Mei as you will see at the bottom of the thread.

 

When I get home tonight I will hit the books again and see if the Mei of Nobody or the idea of Morita san is/was on any list of known Netsuke carvers. We could very well be on a wild goose chase, though.

 

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.

[Guido]

The Lazarnick books (http://www.amazon.com/NETSUKE-INRO-ARTISTS-Their-Signatures/dp/091706402X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197957299&sr=8-5) are the best source available for checking Netsuke signatures; I'll do just that when I get home tonight. However, I'm not exactly holding my breath in this case ... :?

[Bugyotsuji]

  Guido Schiller said:

The Lazarnick books (http://www.amazon.com/NETSUKE-INRO-ARTISTS-Their-Signatures/dp/091706402X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197957299&sr=8-5) are the best source available for checking Netsuke signatures; I'll do just that when I get home tonight. However, I'm not exactly holding my breath in this case ... :?

 

You have those Guido? They're quite expensive. I am sure they are great, but I have never quite plucked up enough courage to buy them!!!

 

How about 翁亭 ? Okina-tei was a Netsuke carver, in ivory, in the mid-Edo period.

[Guido]

Akiie / Masaie 晶家 and Okinatomi 翁富 are not listed in Lazarnick, Brockhaus, Davey etc.

Masahiro 政廣 is, but the Mei looks *very* different.

Okinatei 翁亭 is only mentioned in Bushell / Ueda, and Davey and Lazarnick think it's a misreading of Osai 翁齋 - which comes quite close to your signature, but I don't think it's a real match.

[Nobody]

Guido, your work is excellent.

Actually, I was thinking after my previous post that the second kanji may be sai (齋).

[Bugyotsuji]

Ueda says under 'Osai' that he is the same person as 'Okina-tei'!!!

 

Maybe we're onto something here... excellent! :lol:

 

(A couple of hours later at home.)

 

*According to Ito Ryuichi they were the same person, real name 石岡 Ishioka, who worked in ivory in late Edo.

 

If no-one adds to this, then perhaps I should attract fatphilip's attention to this discussion. May I say thank you all in the meantime for your fantastic narrowing-down powers of detective work! It feels as though something has been unblocked. :D

[pcfarrar]

I have an Osai netsuke in my collection. Here is the mei if it helps.

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for that, Peter. A very valuable comparison. Despite the differences, there are certainly quite a few interesting similarities there.