Trying To Learn More About Collecting.

[zburkett]

I'm trying to get a handle on what to look for is swords starting with the swords I already have.  I bought this sword a auction a couple of decades ago, it is in military fittings and I am to it is a hand made sword from just before WW II.  It is in good shape except for frayed wrapping.  Among the things I don't know is it a good or poor example of the type?  Is it oil or water quenched?  Why does it matter? Etc.?  Any tutoring of someone who knows nothing would be appreciated. 

[SteveM]

Looks to be signed 助房 (Sukefusa). This would be the smith's name - his "art" name anyway - his given name and last name would probably be different. The military sword collectors on this site can tell you more about the fittings. Regarding the quenching method: first, the big question of "why does it matter?". The method of quenching has an effect on how the sword curves, and how the hamon appears.

 

Demand for swords shot up during Japan's imperial era. Individual smiths couldn't hand-forge enough swords to meet demand, so the government started producing swords at a number of foundries. These foundry-produced swords were typically made from various industrial steels rather than tamahagane, and they tended to be oil-quenched. The production was overseen by a number of traditionally-trained smiths, who would put their names on the tang of the swords. Your sword looks to me to be one of these types of swords (but I am an amateur at this, so take mine as a layman's opinion).  

 

Not all WW2 swords are foundry-made. Smiths continued to manufacture swords in the traditional method as well. 

 

Also, nowadays non-traditionally forged swords are not allowed to be traded or even owned in Japan. They are viewed by the authorities as weapons rather than art objects, and so there is a prohibition of these swords that continues from the American occupation era. However judging from the number of WW2 swords that keep popping up on Japanese auction sites, I think the general bias against these swords is fading. 

 

There is also a ton of information on this site. Put the search engine to good use and see what you can find. Look up at the links at the top of this page for topics that catch your interest. Stay tuned for more info. Hopefully one of the military sword experts will jump in with more authoritative info. The site below is also a much-referenced site for WW2 sword info. 

http://ohmura-study.net/900.html

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello, a place to begin is understanding how a traditional Japanese Sword is made. Which in essence is what defines a Nihonto. It is essential to begin learning and developing a nihonto vocabulary during the learning process.   Very quickly, being called away, from the images in my opinion your sword is not a traditionally made nihonto. The military sword collectors will probably be chiming in shortly with more views. 

 

 

 

the secret world of the Japanese swordsmith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxwWf-MfZVk

[Ken-Hawaii]

Zack, as Franco says, this topic has been covered many times on this board, so please do a search for some key words, like "beginner's books" to get started. Have fun!

 

Ken

[zburkett]

Thanks everyone.  Steven M that is the most useful answer I have received on this forum.  I have a working knowledge of military blades but am developing more interest in Japanese swords, in my case more from the historical point.  The two other swords in my collection are older.  The problem is "Samurai" swords are more expensive then even the blades from my collection that have already gone into museums.  I'm willing to bite the bullet but for the expense I would like to know more about the collecting culture.  My blade signed Yokoyama Kousuke Daijo Fujiware Sukesada (which is in worse shape)  is in many ways more interesting, but I do not understand the relative value in yankee dollars.  Since all of my blades, so far, are war bring backs I will probably just end up giving them to the Marine Corps Museum.  Then I will be dead so I won't care what the dollar value is.  What I can't seem to get a handle on is how one chooses a sword to add to their collection.  What makes one blade worth a few hundred dollars and another worth several thousand?  I understand that the saber in my collection with a small "CS" stamped on it is worth several times the price of the same saber without the stamp.  I understand that the market is flooded with Chinese fakes you can see in an instant but not necessarily see a picture.  At present I know where there is a $1,000.00 blade that I don't know if it is a rip off or a steal.  What I cannot get a handle on is the culture of collecting.

[Greg F]

Hello Zack to be honest it takes time. Lots of reading books and if you can get together with more experienced collectors whenever you can. I find Nmb is the best resource ive found for many reasons. Its like anything in life when we learn more we realize we dont know much so it takes studying over time. All the best.

 

Greg

[Jean]

Zack,

 

No shortcut in learning and appreciating Japanese swords. You have to buy books to understand what is a Nihonto and how to appreciate it. Books will give you all the details. Then if you are still interested, you must go to a show. There are several in the USA. You must see the real thing, hold it and learn to see. Try to subscribe to a Nihonto Club, try to find in your area a fellow who collects Nihonto and who can teach you (kind of Mentor).

[Brian]

Zack,

You are comparing mass produced items like civil war swords, that are all the same with a few different markings, with Japanese swords...where each one is unique, possessing it's own characteristics, activity, features and quality. It is like comparing paintings, and wondering why some fetch more than others. To me, I usually have no idea. To those that study paintings..it makes perfect sense.
Aside from the usual run of the mill mass produced wartime swords where there are set values more or less, handmade swords depend on quality and individual condition and even then, values vary wildly.

There is no guide book telling you what they are worth. No set of rules. Just a field of interest where study allows you to see the quality and better determine a value on something.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Zack,

What has been said already makes great sense: no shortcuts, study.  But about your plans to give your swords to the Marine Corps Museum.  Unless your swords are exceptionally valuable and the museum they are given to specializes in Japanese art (or better yet Japanese swords), odds are very good that the swords will rust away in a box in the basement until sometime in the future when a curator will discover them and sell them off to bring in funds.  The swords are much better off if you sell them to a serious collector who will take care with his investment.

Grey

[Stephen]

100% agree

[Rich S]

Zack -

 

There is no culture of collecting (anything). It is a disease and now you are permanently infected! Enjoy as there is no cure.

Rich

[lonely panet]

Zack, Rich is dead right.

 

iv tried to cure myself twice now, by trying to sell my whole collection and put the money back in too my new family. I never happens, fate or bad luck/ good luck always stops me.

 

regardless of your financial level, aways buy the best condition and best quality you can afford at the time. and never go past a 50//50 buy. we all kick our selves for not buying something we should have.

 

the old saying,

 

THATS EXPENSIVE TODAY IS CHEAP TOMORROW.

[Jean]

Zack,

 

Read this topic first before buying:

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12646-advices-for-newbies-buyers-rules-of-thumb/

[zburkett]

Thanks Jean.  That thread was very helpful.  By reading all the way through I was able to better understand my own interest.  One distinction I notice is I'm not interested in resale value.  My interest is where a given sword will fit into my collection.  When I am blessed with the opportunity of being the steward of a beautiful work of art that is a rich contributor to our world's history, my kids can worry about how I spent their inheritance.