Inherited Sword

[CMD]

I have recently inherited a WWII era sword from a great uncle who served in China.  It looks like a forged blade, and has a signature on the tang, and also another symbol on the other side of the tang.  The blade is slightly rusty and the tang enough so that it's hard (for me) to make out the characters.  I'm interested in any information anyone can provide.  Thanks very much.

 

Chuck

[Nihontocollector19]

looks to be marked with the showa stamp non traditional  

[Bruce Pennington]

Chuck,

The last pic shows a Seki stamp.  The Seki factory had several swordsmiths working for them.  The all-brown tassel is a late-war tassel for any officer rank.  Looks like a cool hamon (temper line).  Need to take some better pics and post them with the blade tip up so the pro's can read them.

[Stephen]

how about you try Bruce???

[Stephen]

Kanetomo

[SteveM]

関住福田兼丈

 

Seki Jyū Fukuda Kanetake, I think. 

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 8/10/2016 at 4:18 AM, Stephen said:

how about you try Bruce???

Hey, I get it wrong every time! I am making some progress though. I had one half right a couple days ago!

[ggil]

Showa stamp may not ALWAYS mean non-traditional. Star stamp (a Showa stamp) signifies 100% traditional to most collectors. We should be careful to not devalue another's sword, or through our ignorance a good blade may be mistreated. Look at the mei, someone spent some time there.

 

Anyway, just because Japanese history is hazy around this time, doesn't mean we should think less of a finely made blade because it got stamped, which this may well be. we simply can't see enough from pictures to tell, especially while the thing is rusty.

[Stephen]

what i get for doing a bedtime translation 

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/oshigata/kanetake.jpg

[David Flynn]

Seki was not a factory.  The Seki stamp signifies swords accepted through the Seki military arsenal.

[SwordGuyJoe]

  On 8/10/2016 at 7:03 AM, ggil said:

Showa stamp may not ALWAYS mean non-traditional. Star stamp (a Showa stamp) signifies 100% traditional to most collectors. We should be careful to not devalue another's sword, or through our ignorance a good blade may be mistreated. Look at the mei, someone spent some time there.

 

Anyway, just because Japanese history is hazy around this time, doesn't mean we should think less of a finely made blade because it got stamped, which this may well be. we simply can't see enough from pictures to tell, especially while the thing is rusty.

I'm sorry to disagree but seki and sho stamps do indicate non-traditional blades. You are right about the star stamp though.

[lonely panet]

Joe is correct.

 

to my knowledge it became law in 1940 that all non-traditionally made swords were stamped to provided a simple means to ID them.

 

the star stamp is the odd one out, as its the only confirmed 100% traditional sword made from Japanese materials

 Here is a list  of smiths who used this stamp on there swords during ww2

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/gendai2.htm

 

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/showato.htm

 

regards H

[mauser99]

Looks to be a very nice orig. WW2 period sword.  Nothing fancy just a straight up working mans tool.  Best to get some oil on that blade to slow the rust.

Don't attempt to clean it just get oil on It.  If you intend to keep it proper storage is important.   An average est. of value as it sits would be 800- 1k usd  @ the present time. 

[Brian]

  On 8/10/2016 at 7:03 AM, ggil said:

Showa stamp may not ALWAYS mean non-traditional. Star stamp (a Showa stamp) signifies 100% traditional to most collectors.

By "Showa" stamp, they mean "Sho" stamp, which is always a sign of non-traditional. (The odd exception being so scarce as to be insignificant here)

If you see a Sho or Seki stamp, it isn't a Gendaito. Saying the RJT Star stamp is a Showa stamp is only correct as a timeline reference.

[ggil]

Thanks for the correction folks. I still think that if we deal in absolutes than we may miss out on those rare items, or even be party to disrespecting well made blades at times. Best to keep circumspect and judge the blade on its merits, rather than diregard it based on the nakago alone (the stamp I mean).

[SwordGuyJoe]

No one is disrespecting it. Many non-traditional blades are sold for large amounts and many respected smiths forged non-traditional blades - Kanemichi immediately comes to mind but there were others to be sure. Militaria collectors highly value these in mounts, but to be specific, they are still non-traditional in one way or another, so they are less valued by collectors of gendaito or other traditional, older and newer blades. It's not a bad thing, just as they say, different strokes for different folks.

[ggil]

Well put Joe! Maybe just being too sensitive, I guess. Don't wanna discourage new posters, you know.

[SwordGuyJoe]

I get it and I was shooting to help your efforts

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 8/10/2016 at 11:28 AM, David Flynn said:

Seki was not a factory. The Seki stamp signifies swords accepted through the Seki military arsenal.

David, you made me do some research, thanks! For educational purposes: David and I were both half right.

 

The Seki Swords Co, Ltd, was a sword manufacturing company. Dawson discusses them on several pages. Their stamp is different and a pic is included below from a Type 95.

 

The "Seki" stamp we see more often is an inspector's acceptance stamp from the Seki Inspection Unit of the Nagoya Arsenal, created, according to Fuller (page 213) to "...coordinate the manufacture and acceptance of blades in the centres where they were supplied direct to the Army."

[ggil]

Guessing that mid 19th, to mid 20th century Japanese sword history has some unearthing yet to be done. Mass cultural flux and colonialism efforts may have been a big factor??? There are things done to not be proud of...and when that happens the history books become wanting.

 

Edit: got Jim Dawson's book today and it's causing me sword overload. Lots of good information there!

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 8/10/2016 at 6:37 PM, ggil said:

Guessing that mid 19th, to mid 20th century Japanese sword history has some unearthing yet to be done. Mass cultural flux and colonialism efforts may have been a big factor??? There are things done to not be proud of...and when that happens the history books become wanting.

Just makes the detective work more challenging, eh! Your point is true for all mankind, isn't it, though.

[ggil]

cracked Jim Dawson's book and now thinking I should read more???? Or tone down certain recreational activities.????

[Stephen]

i think Grant and Bruce should be locked in a room and let them theorist to death. 

[ggil]

Point taken Stephen. This is not my area of expertise (if I find an area that would be nice)! However, Bruce seems like a nice fellow, I'm game!

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 8/10/2016 at 8:10 PM, Stephen said:

i think Grant and Bruce should be locked in a room and let them theorist to death.

 

????

[CMD]

Thank you all so much for the information.  I figured it was a military piece, but I was a little thrown because of the clear hamon and what look like patterns in the blade (not positive because of rust).  I knew about the stamped blades and obviously the traditional, but I didn't know anything about the not stamped but not traditional, which it seems like this one is.  So that's interesting. How would a blade like this have been made?  Traditional but non-Japanese steel?  I've included some better photos of the signature and especially the blade.

[lonely panet]

It can differ alot from smith to smith. Some my use core steal, while some will use western monosteal and make to shape and oil quench it. Its a very subjective topic on its own