Calling On Tosogu Connoisseurs, Koshirae Opinion

[Nickupero]

Hi Guys, I have this interesting Edo period Koshirae with blade that I will be introducing in the near future. As per the post title it is the Tosogu I'm looking to get help or opinions on as I'll be listing it for sale in the near future and I don't know much about the set at all, I'll openly admit that Tosogu isn't my strongest point.

But yes I'd like to know if any school specialized in these water related themes, they are uncommon but I've seen similar things before. So feel free to give any breakdown or analysis on the piece as a whole or by individual component. Also In case you haven't noted in the picture the lacquer work is really something, each side is completely different but if you look carefully there is a 3rd layer that divides the both sides. The wood texture and feel actually simulates real wood so well. The tsuba is a shell of what, abalone? It is interesting because one side is clean and the other is simulated to look like the outside of the shell. Thanks in advance!

 

[Nickupero]

some more...

 

[Jean]

Yes Nick, tsuba represents an abalone shell.

[Brian]

True, but the first time I have seen them emulate the other side of the shell too. Very unusual, and a wonderful koshirae, with the theme continuing throughout.

Love that octopus. This should do well.

[Greg F]

Hi Nick a really nice koshirae, so much to look at end to end. Cheers.

 

Greg

[Stephen]

LOVE LOVE LOVE it, only thing out of place to my eye is the Kozuka should be in Suaka, the lobster being added after the fact due to ocean them, due to org. being lost. 

[Bazza]

I wonder if there is a genre in this type of koshirae as I once saw a tanto/kowakizashi that was composed entirely of vegetable themes.  The tsuba was a pumpkin, the kozuka a bean pod, the menuki a stunning pair of shakudo melons and so on.  An astounding piece in theme and execution, just like Nick's tanto here.  The red/gold-colour lacquer is interesting in itself as a friend has a tanto with saya entirely in that lacquer style.

 

BaZZa.

[Stephen]

Bazz

 

I think the red gold reps a cherry bark

[ROKUJURO]

Nick,

that is really a nice one!

The sea turtle being looked at from the underside lets me believe that the bark-like lacquer is possibly meant to imitate the water surface. The glossy part of the SAYA lacquer seems to imitate cherry tree bark. The third dividing part of lacquer looks like AOGAI.

Somebody obviously had a nice concept of a beautiful KOSHIRAE and the means to make some artists do their best!

[Stephen]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-Japanese-Edo-18-19th-C-Samurai-Antique-MASAHIDE-Signed-Shrimp-KOZUKA-C219-/272290044708?hash=item3f65c05b24:g:Mr0AAOSwzJ5Xcyob

 

Suaka Lobster but price is out of this world...lol

[vajo]

A fantastic piece!

 

 

Very very interesting. Reminds me on other thing...

[Tanto54]

Dear Nick,

 

While the rough side of the saya is probably lacquer simulated tree bark, the "shiny" side of the saya is almost certainly actual cherry bark veneer (instead of simulated lacquer).  The turtle is not a sea turtle; instead it is a freshwater softshell called a "suppon" (a Japanese delicacy).  I think that Stephen is correct - the kozuka is not original.  The kozuka's quality is not consistent with the other parts and the theme of the kozuka is actually Shimekazari or New Years and the rest of the koshirae is water delicacies (I believe that the fuchi depicts a fishing trap method). 

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

Could the underside of the turtle indicate this side of the saya/log is underwater and weathered as such, the side strip water surface itself, bark side above?

The kurigata looks like a mussel to me. And the fuchi must represent something to do with fishing/trapping perhaps?

[TETSUGENDO]

Steven K

[TosoguCz]

Types of lacquer on saya:

Tree bark imitation-juhi mitateai

Cherry tree bark imittion-sakurgawa nuri

Middle part - Nashiji by seashell.

[SteveM]

Very interesting scabbard. I think very far in style from what would have been allowed by someone on official business, and probably unaffordable to most people. It seems the middle section of crushed abalone shell is especially extravagant. If I had to guess I would say this was made by a businessman, or perhaps a very high quality piece made for overseas markets (as opposed to the cheap stuff we often see). Taking a leap from Chris's post above I also half wonder if the juxtaposition of the suppon (snapping turtle) with the mussel is some kind of double-entendre: a sly metaphor for male and female?

 

Or, it could be too much caffeine in my coffee. 

 

Anyway, a lovely koshirae (and great photographs as well). 

[Ford Hallam]

In my opinion the metal parts of this assembly were not made by the same person or studio nor were they made as part of a overall design concept. This is a loose collection of parts with a tenuous link to the sea or aquatic life...and a fresh water turtle (suppon). The inclusion of that turtle suggests the koshirae was intended for an uninformed audience who wouldn't notice the turtle is the odd one out. I doubt that any wealthy Edoite would have made such a daft mistake especially as they were a popular delicacy.

 

The fuchi kashira are very obviously mis-matched and while the menuki are copper they way they are finished compared to the worn gilt on the octopus suggests that they were also originally unconnected with any of the other parts.

 

The tsuba is mildly interesting in that it seems to feature enamel on the rough side but it's not a particularly fine piece of craftsmanship, imo. The kurikata is far better in terms of conception and technique than the tsuba. I think that bit is probably the best part :-)

 

It's already been pointed out that the kozuka is possibly a replacement but given that this koshirae is obviously a mish mash of disparate parts I see no reason to think this isn't what was originally chosen for the set.

[Ford Hallam]

well that's no fun...no counter argument?   you guys are no fun

 

[Jean]

Ford,

 

We've just learned to be cautious... Lol

[Ford Hallam]

[Brian]

Is "Well, I like it a lot anyways" a valid and scientific enough answer? :laughing:

[Ford Hallam]

it's Friday  so I'll let you off

[SAS]

How about "it's better than I can make, so it must be good" ?

[Stephen]

ill counter with it at one time was all Suaka, Kashira kurikata menuki are in suite the fuchi nor kozuka match, ive been doing searches for suaka and more than a few in suite 

 

https://www.touken-matsumoto.jp/eng/product_details_e.php?prod_no=TAN-0063

 

 

http://sanmei.com/contents/media/T233709_T8612_PUP3.html

 

http://tetsugendo.com/swords/Tan_119_masataka.html

 

 

 

for just a few

[Nickupero]

Wow, some activity here in this post, missed all the action. Sorry as I've been away for a little while due to a death in the family, positive thing to take from this is at least we get to see family from all over world that we haven't seen in ages, like our Aussie cousins

 

I like the take on different theories, like above and under water views, I see how that would make sense. I didn't think the Tosogu was made from the same school so thank you for clearing that up Ford, yes certainly the Kozuka stands out from the rest. Love the hesitance from everyone to respond to Ford's post, he certainly earned his stripes and everyone seems to acknowledge that by their carefully thought replies .  But as the set is it does give the eye plenty to see with a lot of different textures which is what I liked about it and glad that many of you share the same opinion. I'll try to list some pics of the blade shortly.

[Nickupero]

I'll be listing it in the for sale section shortly, wanted to give you a quick view of the Tetsu-Tsunagi that comes with it. I know its the Tosogu section but I didn't see the need in starting another thread. Its actually quite a nice blade, mei reads "Masa", you can see the sabi is only towards the Kissaki, would need a polish but the hamon is still visible. Nice hamon that reminds me of a candle flame.

 

[manfrommagnum]

The whole set up is awesome. Definitely a keeper set.