Matching Mystery Marine Mounton Ebay

[mauser99]

As with the German navy and air force for that matter. When their war was basically over they were pushed into a standard infantry roll.  The same could be said for the Japanese navy.  There is a series of famous photos from Life magazine showing a Naval garrison surrendering and there is a pile of swords and there are many single Hanger type Naval swords in this pile.  One fellow commented on how this put to rest the controversy over these being wartime or assembled post war.    

[Kai-Gunto]

I guess its this photo.The photo shows other swords. The kabutogane looks like a closed one. IMO, not same sword type.

Tsuba is also the normal shingunto.

[Johncstroud]

Well I must admit it is a possibility it may have spent some time in the jungles here in puerto rico hopefully not for harvesting bananas but would be excellent for the purpose.move over machetes you have been outdone.

[Kai-Gunto]

Well I must admit it is a possibility it may have spent some time in the jungles here in puerto rico hopefully not for harvesting bananas but would excellent for the purpose.move over machetes you have been outdone.

the blades dosnt rust!

[Johncstroud]

So what shall I call it ? Shin-kai gunto?

[Kai-Gunto]

Gunto!

[Johncstroud]

Hey Thomas,SteveM found the translation for the mei:Toyosuke saku.Idont know if he was kaigun toko smith,or likely a Toyokawa domiciled smith but that would be speculation on my part.any ideas?

[Stephen]

more than a few of them made in like mounts

 

http://www.zacke.at/en/item/14826/kunsthandwerk-ostasiatischer-kulturkreis-military-sword-dekorobjekte-alltag

[Johncstroud]

This is how she cut both layers in one motion the material is American Eagle denim.

[mauser99]

I guess its this photo.The photo shows other swords. The kabutogane looks like a closed one. IMO, not same sword type.

Tsuba is also the normal shingunto.

YES,  there is this one which I have seen many times and other from the same roll I have not.  But, that type of sword is seen in these photos.

[Johncstroud]

I think Toyosuke made quite afew of these only he really knew .

[Johncstroud]

High class auction for showato huh?

[Johncstroud]

Did they say meiji period?

[Dave R]

Did they say meiji period?

Did they mean the blade only? We are all familiar with old blades in Gunto mounts. Otherwise just a confusion between Meiji and Showa. Lets face it, most of the World has no idea as to reign names in Japan.

[Johncstroud]

Truly Dave not sure but the first stainless steel was in 1921 if I'm correct.but the other possibility is they traditionally made then chromed.or made with bar stock and then

Chromed at the end of the war with limited resources anything is possible.

[Johncstroud]

That leaves a three year window for this to be be made in the meiji period ..

Possible yes ,probable no because there is only one mekugi-ana.

[Brian]

Occams Razor....they got the date wrong.
Nothing outstanding about that sword. It's the usual sort, with an incorrect description.

[Johncstroud]

I present William of Ockham

[Johncstroud]

In respect to the painted numbers on the nakago so far I have seen the numbers 6,45,73 made by Toyosuke is it reasonable

To say these are perhaps serial numbers?to track production?

[Stephen]

how much more can ya pull out of this thread...LOL, is this the same one that got locked found in PR?

[Brian]

Painted numbers are always just rack/issue numbers, nothing of any consequence.

[Kai-Gunto]

YES, there is this one which I have seen many times and other from the same roll I have not. But, that type of sword is seen in these photos.

Please explain.

I see in circle 1 kaigunto kabutogana and in 2, I dont see shingunto kabutogana. They are totally different like the ashi. Not same.

[Johncstroud]

how much more can ya pull out of this thread...LOL, is this the same one that got locked found in PR?

the answer is yes it is and at least now we all have a better understanding of these blades and we all benefit.the other thing is I did not want this swordsmith to disappear into oblivion,the critics may say what they want but in my humble opinion it is an impressive weapon.purpose built and served well for the purpose intended.I sincerely appreciate the time and effort all have devoted to the cause .I am deeply greatful.I hope to say somehow the souls of the departed are somehow appeased

Respectfully yours John C. Stroud

[mauser99]

Please explain.

I see in circle 1 kaigunto kabutogana and in 2, I dont see shingunto kabutogana. They are totally different like the ashi. Not same.

I guess Im not technical enough. I was just basing it off of lacquered saya with one mounting ring.   

[Bruce Pennington]

Jim Dawson calls them "late war Kai-gunto". It would fit the idea that GI's found warehouses of new ones, and would explain why most of them are in perfect condition.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

There are a few documents around that I think explain what these swords are

Among the fantastic documents that Stephen Thorpe kindly posted in the articles section is the report of a conference held at the Tenshozan Works Kamakura on the 9th of September 1946. Those present included the manager Shintaro Yao who said that he had a contract with the 8th Army PX to deliver for sale by them 8000 swords . He was worried because the PX had cancelled the contract.  

 

Among the downloadable documents in the National Diet library website is a letter from Capt Wall dated 22 July 1949 where he seeks permission to take home one Naval type Japanese sword presented to him by Mr Yao supervisor of the Japanese Naval sword Manufacturing Co Kamakura .

 

There is a further letter dated 4 March 1950 requesting authorization to procure authentic samurai swords and hari kari knives for resale to the Exchange . I am not sure what the exchange is but the letter goes on to approve the recommendation that CPO be allowed to procure for sale to the exchange some 6000 souvenir swords . It was noted that the recommendation was based on the fact that an original purchase order had been placed with the manufacturer and had not been cancelled in time to prevent the manufacture of some 6000 swords. In order to prevent monetary loss to the Japanese concern procurement of the remainder of the purchase order was approved . 

 

I think these documents explain the origins of these swords 

Ian Brooks

[vajo]

Thanks Ian, i hope that these swords now viewed as that what it is. A deco object and a souvenier.

[BANGBANGSAN]

I found this kanji symbol that closely matches could someone tell me what it is andif it is the same.

Not the same Knji.The one you post is 夢,on the tang is 豐佐。

[IJASWORDS]

But it is a WW2 blade, only the koshirae is a post war  souvenir?  

[Bruce Pennington]

There are a few documents around that I think explain what these swords are

Among the fantastic documents that Stephen Thorpe kindly posted in the articles section is the report of a conference held at the Tenshozan Works Kamakura on the 9th of September 1946. Those present included the manager Shintaro Yao who said that he had a contract with the 8th Army PX to deliver for sale by them 8000 swords . He was worried because the PX had cancelled the contract.  

 

Among the downloadable documents in the National Diet library website is a letter from Capt Wall dated 22 July 1949 where he seeks permission to take home one Naval type Japanese sword presented to him by Mr Yao supervisor of the Japanese Naval sword Manufacturing Co Kamakura .

 

There is a further letter dated 4 March 1950 requesting authorization to procure authentic samurai swords and hari kari knives for resale to the Exchange . I am not sure what the exchange is but the letter goes on to approve the recommendation that CPO be allowed to procure for sale to the exchange some 6000 souvenir swords . It was noted that the recommendation was based on the fact that an original purchase order had been placed with the manufacturer and had not been cancelled in time to prevent the manufacture of some 6000 swords. In order to prevent monetary loss to the Japanese concern procurement of the remainder of the purchase order was approved . 

 

I think these documents explain the origins of these swords 

Ian Brooks

That's great information Ian! It confirms what I had found. Over on Gunboards someone posted one of these with the Army PX document. It written out by the 8th Army Exchange and says it's a souvenir not a war weapon. By all appearances, it was sold by the PX!

 

I think these were being made as part of MacArthur's post-war effort to keep businesses running.

 

You can see more of it on this thread: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22400-nlf-gunto-discussion/page-1?hl=gunto

and

http://www.wehrmacht...ad.php?t=984036