Matching Mystery Marine Mounton Ebay

[Johncstroud]

Not often you find a match to your own sword on ebay!the mei,s are almost exactly same as are the swords.!I still dont know for sure what the kanji reads.but I think its cool.

[Bruce Pennington]

Can't speak to the mei, but the aresenal stamp is Toyokawa Naval Arsenal.

[Johncstroud]

Its seems to me that this style of koshirai is more common than I had first thought.I found this photo of a sword factory in Japan

courtesy of Fred Lohmans website which Armory was not stated.

[Johncstroud]

Does anyone know if this koshirai was used by a specific division ? I know there seems to be much controversy over the so called Naval landing forces swords.could any elaborate as to the year they were made and possibly by whom? I would be ever so grateful.

[vajo]

I saw many of this easy build kai gunto. All prices around $500.

 

The shape of the sword looks terrible for me.

 

 

 

Navy and Airforce have two ashi on the saya. This is not a naval ashi.

[Stephen]

That Kissaki hurts the eyes

[Johncstroud]

I believe perhaps it was broken and then reground but mine measures 24 3/4 @ the machi mune making them nearly identical in length.

[Johncstroud]

Correction the blade on ebay is 1/4 inch shorter.

[Johncstroud]

If you have one for sale I would gladly buy it from you for that price!

[Bruce Pennington]

I saw many of this easy build kai gunto. All prices around $500.

 

The shape of the sword looks terrible for me.

 

 

 

Navy and Airforce have two ashi on the saya. This is not a naval ashi.

While the standard Navy kai-gunto had 2 ashi, this version was quite common, and WAS Navy. I'm on the road and don't have my books, but there are multiple sources that verify this version as Navy. They were believed to have been used by Naval officers stationed on land, working with the Army. The standard statement is that they believed the army fittings would stand up better in land combat. But the fittings were gold-guilded and fitted on navy saya and tsuka. The blades are always kai-gunto blades.

[Johncstroud]

I appreciate your response Bruce any info you could pull up on this style of kaigunto is very helpful in unraveling this mystery .it seems there are a few critics.but the important thing is to preserve every piece of history so future generations may benefit

no matter how small.Sure wish I could find out more about this smith. He certainly seemed to be quite consistent when you compare the two.

[Johncstroud]

I found this kanji symbol that closely matches could someone tell me what it is andif it is the same.

[Bruce Pennington]

John, seems translators are occupied elsewhere for the moment. Have you ever tried the Wehrmacht site? They seem to have more active translators right now.

 

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=59

[Johncstroud]

I had not seen that one before I will check it out .Thank you Bruce.have another question have you noticed the differences in the toyokawa stamps ?

[Brian]

John, seems translators are occupied elsewhere for the moment.

Yep..probably in the translation section. Who woulda thunk it? 

[Johncstroud]

Duely noted,I was under the impression that the translation section was reserved for nihonto related requests.None the less Thank you.

[Bruce Pennington]

I had not seen that one before I will check it out .Thank you Bruce.have another question have you noticed the differences in the toyokawa stamps ?

John, I don't see the difference? Yours looks like it was polished over, which fuzzed out the detail. What is it that looks different to you?

[Bruce Pennington]

Yep..probably in the translation section. Who woulda thunk it? 

Brian, OMG, thanks for the tip! I've been on this forum for over a year, and never knew about that forum! Dang, there's LOTs of sword stuff going on over there!

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Hi Bruce , I have real doubts that this is a Naval sword . I live in Australia and have looked at thousands of swords that were bought back from the South West Pacific theatre of war and have never seen one of this pattern . It is possible that late in the war the Japanese couldn't get reinforcements through to the south West pacific area which accounts for their absence here .PersonallyI think that they were made in Japan really late in the war or more likely after the war from left over bits and pieces . I would be interested to hear Thomas's views on this .

 

Ian Brooks.

[Johncstroud]

I believe mine here in Puerto Rico has the cherry blossoms on the pommel filed off .

Also the absence of the rising sun o-seppa

Suggest a surrendered blade.in respect to thestamps they seem to be deep struck and then chromed over. the other stamps seem larger with the barbs of the anchor more spread out.

[Johncstroud]

Not to mention mine looks like it came out of a jungle!

[Johncstroud]

One or more photos from PR

[Johncstroud]

Better lighting

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Bruce , I have real doubts that this is a Naval sword . I live in Australia and have looked at thousands of swords that were bought back from the South West Pacific theatre of war and have never seen one of this pattern . It is possible that late in the war the Japanese couldn't get reinforcements through to the south West pacific area which accounts for their absence here .PersonallyI think that they were made in Japan really late in the war or more likely after the war from left over bits and pieces . I would be interested to hear Thomas's views on this .Ian Brooks.

Ian, I've heard both theories too - late war production using IJA parts (but why are they gold-guilded?) and piece-together. I'm on the road and don't have my books with me, but I'm pretty sure Dawson or F&G have these discussed as legitimate IJN for land use. I'll update in a couple of days. I'll also check on the rising sun tsuba question.

 

My problem with the "pieced-together" theory is that I've been trying to find pieces to finishe the saya of my dad's Mantetsu saya, and a chuso, and have given up! The variations of size are too great to claim that all the marine-landing gunto I've seen on the market and in collections were successfully fitted together from various parts.

 

I'm posting a pic from a close friend who has one that is, for sure, a gunto collected on Iwo Jima.

[Kai-Gunto]

Its army late war. Shingunto fittings. Stainless steel blades for jungle use.

All these swords missing the sun ray seppas. One seppa integrated on the fuchi.

[Bruce Pennington]

Its army late war. Shingunto fittings. Stainless steel blades for jungle use.

All these swords missing the sun ray seppas. One seppa integrated on the fuchi.

Interesting idea, Thomas, but why would the fittings be gold-guilded, and the nakago has a Toyokawa navy arsenal stamp?

 

Here's another one, identical, on an auction site. Toyokawa Navy Arsenal, gold-guilded army fittings, no rising-sun rays.

[Johncstroud]

Whats different with my sword the fuchi is a

Naval style fuchi and all the numbers match all 45 matching the symbols on the blade as well.

[Johncstroud]

One thing is sure anything that holds its edge for 71 years is one bad mamajama.

[sbf]

I have seen lots of these swords over the years still in the hands of the veterans who brought them back. The swords were always in excellent condition unless they had been stored in a barn or tool shed. Without exception they picked them up in Japan after the war ended. I believe the swords are a late war pattern that was never actually issued, and our occupation troops cleaned out the warehouse.

 

Steve

[Kai-Gunto]

I have seen lots of these swords over the years still in the hands of the veterans who brought them back. The swords were always in excellent condition unless they had been stored in a barn or tool shed. Without exception they picked them up in Japan after the war ended. I believe the swords are a late war pattern that was never actually issued, and our occupation troops cleaned out the warehouse.

 

Steve

Sounds right. The swords has all army look and all menukis are the army type. Never seen army menuki on kaigunto. Only civil menuki and tsuba are found.

I have never owen one, cus somehow I dont like them. They are like frankenstein, IMO.