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Matching Mystery Marine Mounton Ebay

Johncstroud
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Johncstroud Enthusiast

Johncstroud

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Its seems to me that this style of koshirai is more common than I had first thought.I found this photo of a sword factory in Japan

courtesy of Fred Lohmans website which Armory was not stated.

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Johncstroud Enthusiast

Johncstroud

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Does anyone know if this koshirai was used by a specific division ? I know there seems to be much controversy over the so called Naval landing forces swords.could any elaborate as to the year they were made and possibly by whom? I would be ever so grateful.

vajo Grand Master

vajo

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I saw many of this easy build kai gunto. All prices around $500.

 

The shape of the sword looks terrible for me.

 

DSC03525.JPG

 

DSC03510.JPG

 

Navy and Airforce have two ashi on the saya. This is not a naval ashi.

Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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I saw many of this easy build kai gunto. All prices around $500.

 

The shape of the sword looks terrible for me.

 

DSC03525.JPG

 

DSC03510.JPG

 

Navy and Airforce have two ashi on the saya. This is not a naval ashi.

While the standard Navy kai-gunto had 2 ashi, this version was quite common, and WAS Navy. I'm on the road and don't have my books, but there are multiple sources that verify this version as Navy. They were believed to have been used by Naval officers stationed on land, working with the Army. The standard statement is that they believed the army fittings would stand up better in land combat. But the fittings were gold-guilded and fitted on navy saya and tsuka. The blades are always kai-gunto blades.

Johncstroud Enthusiast

Johncstroud

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I appreciate your response Bruce any info you could pull up on this style of kaigunto is very helpful in unraveling this mystery .it seems there are a few critics.but the important thing is to preserve every piece of history so future generations may benefit

no matter how small.Sure wish I could find out more about this smith. He certainly seemed to be quite consistent when you compare the two.

Brian

Brian

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John, seems translators are occupied elsewhere for the moment.

Yep..probably in the translation section. Who woulda thunk it?  :dunno:

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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I had not seen that one before I will check it out .Thank you Bruce.have another question have you noticed the differences in the toyokawa stamps ?

John, I don't see the difference? Yours looks like it was polished over, which fuzzed out the detail. What is it that looks different to you?

Ian B3HR2UH Rising Star

Ian B3HR2UH

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Hi Bruce , I have real doubts that this is a Naval sword . I live in Australia and have looked at thousands of swords that were bought back from the South West Pacific theatre of war and have never seen one of this pattern . It is possible that late in the war the Japanese couldn't get reinforcements through to the south West pacific area which accounts for their absence here .PersonallyI think that they were made in Japan really late in the war or more likely after the war from left over bits and pieces . I would be interested to hear Thomas's views on this .

 

Ian Brooks.

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Johncstroud Enthusiast

Johncstroud

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I believe mine here in Puerto Rico has the cherry blossoms on the pommel filed off .

Also the absence of the rising sun o-seppa

Suggest a surrendered blade.in respect to thestamps they seem to be deep struck and then chromed over. the other stamps seem larger with the barbs of the anchor more spread out.

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Hi Bruce , I have real doubts that this is a Naval sword . I live in Australia and have looked at thousands of swords that were bought back from the South West Pacific theatre of war and have never seen one of this pattern . It is possible that late in the war the Japanese couldn't get reinforcements through to the south West pacific area which accounts for their absence here .PersonallyI think that they were made in Japan really late in the war or more likely after the war from left over bits and pieces . I would be interested to hear Thomas's views on this .Ian Brooks.

Ian, I've heard both theories too - late war production using IJA parts (but why are they gold-guilded?) and piece-together. I'm on the road and don't have my books with me, but I'm pretty sure Dawson or F&G have these discussed as legitimate IJN for land use. I'll update in a couple of days. I'll also check on the rising sun tsuba question.

 

My problem with the "pieced-together" theory is that I've been trying to find pieces to finishe the saya of my dad's Mantetsu saya, and a chuso, and have given up! The variations of size are too great to claim that all the marine-landing gunto I've seen on the market and in collections were successfully fitted together from various parts.

 

I'm posting a pic from a close friend who has one that is, for sure, a gunto collected on Iwo Jima.

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Kai-Gunto Mentor

Kai-Gunto

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Its army late war. Shingunto fittings. Stainless steel blades for jungle use.

All these swords missing the sun ray seppas. One seppa integrated on the fuchi.

Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Its army late war. Shingunto fittings. Stainless steel blades for jungle use.

All these swords missing the sun ray seppas. One seppa integrated on the fuchi.

Interesting idea, Thomas, but why would the fittings be gold-guilded, and the nakago has a Toyokawa navy arsenal stamp?

 

Here's another one, identical, on an auction site. Toyokawa Navy Arsenal, gold-guilded army fittings, no rising-sun rays.

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sbf Enthusiast

sbf

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I have seen lots of these swords over the years still in the hands of the veterans who brought them back. The swords were always in excellent condition unless they had been stored in a barn or tool shed. Without exception they picked them up in Japan after the war ended. I believe the swords are a late war pattern that was never actually issued, and our occupation troops cleaned out the warehouse.

 

Steve

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Kai-Gunto Mentor

Kai-Gunto

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I have seen lots of these swords over the years still in the hands of the veterans who brought them back. The swords were always in excellent condition unless they had been stored in a barn or tool shed. Without exception they picked them up in Japan after the war ended. I believe the swords are a late war pattern that was never actually issued, and our occupation troops cleaned out the warehouse.

 

Steve

Sounds right. The swords has all army look and all menukis are the army type. Never seen army menuki on kaigunto. Only civil menuki and tsuba are found.

I have never owen one, cus somehow I dont like them. They are like frankenstein, IMO.

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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