Nco Type 95 Shin Gunto

[CarlosFandango]

HI All,

 

Hi I'm a newly signed up member of the site

 

I recently took the plunge and made my first Japanese sword purchase. I opted for the lower end of the market and went for a Type 95 (this is all new to me and only found this out through google) NCO Shin Gunto. One thing I also saw while researching is the nightmare of the number of fakes out there.

I avoided buying into German WW2 helmets because of the fakes out there and now I've entered into another minefield.

 

Anyway, if ok, please see the attached pictures and I ask for your expert opinion on my purchase

 

Kind regards,

 

CF

[Brian]

Need a closer and clearer pic of the serial on the blade and the groove. And the markings on the top of the handle. Buying these off eBay (if you did so) is 80% likely to be a fake.

[CarlosFandango]

Need a closer and clearer pic of the serial on the blade and the groove. And the markings on the top of the handle. Buying these off eBay (if you did so) is 80% likely to be a fake.

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for getting back to me - please see the attached - hope these are ok images. From what I've been reading up, the serial and the blade grove look good but I'm really new to this.

 

I bought the sword from reputable online auction site so am forever hopeful my instincts were correct.

 

Cheers,

 

Simon (CF)

[CarlosFandango]

A better one of the throat of the scabbard..

[Daniel]

Don't worry you did "good"

100% sure this is an original.

 

Kind Regards

Daniel

[paul griff]

Hello Carlos,

Nothing wrong with this one.....a nice example nco's model with the correct stamps.

Regards,

Paul...

P.S. Has your car still got the big wheels ?

[CarlosFandango]

Daniel/Paul,

 

Thanks very much for your feedback. Really appreciate it and so glad my first foray into Japanese military swords hasn't resulted in me buying a lemon.

 

And Paul, haha! I genuinely laughed out loud about the big wheels!     You're the first person to reference that since my old mates gave me that nickname 30 years ago.....sadly the big wheels are no longer present on my car 

 

Cheers and thanks again guys - roll on the next purchase with my new found knowledge!

 

CF

[Bruce Pennington]

Carlos, lucky find! Yours is only the 2nd I've personnally seen (I'm sure the old heads here have seen them before) with the leather saya cover (or what's left of it!). I've seen them in books, but I think it was sort of rare.

[Stegel]

Nice pick up Carlos!

It is one of the first few after the run of Copper handled series ended. The "early" handle is the same as the copper handle, pattern wise.

It was modified later to make adjustments for the extra mounting screw.

The combat cover is a fairly rare piece on these, as Bruce said.

Cheers

[Shamsy]

Oh darn!! I found that exact sword listed last night as sold. I realise now I must have missed it by days, not months. I may as well parrot everyone else and say 100% authentic. There actually aren't as many fakes of these as people seem to think and they are very easy to tell.

[almeister]

Hi Carlos ,

If you haven't already done so - I would suggest removing the tsuka/handle/habaki asap - looking at your pics - looks like corrosion blistering out on the blade in front of the habaki

" If so - don't touch it - post pics & ask for advice ! "

Cheers , AlanK

[CarlosFandango]

Hi Carlos ,

If you haven't already done so - I would suggest removing the tsuka/handle/habaki asap - looking at your pics - looks like corrosion blistering out on the blade in front of the habaki

" If so - don't touch it - post pics & ask for advice ! "

Cheers , AlanK

Thanks everyone for their feedback - I really do appreciate it! Particularly interested in the comments about the leather combat cover - I will certainly look into that more. I'm interested to see if the cover should've covered the whole scabbard or just the half as it currently does..

 

Alan,

 

Just picking up on what you've suggested.. This item was sold as an untouched 'loft find' so I assume it was picked up from the field (Burma maybe?) and brought home. I guess it's sat in some gentleman's loft for ages afterwards. There's some corrosion on the throat too, as you can see from the pictures but this looks minimal (to me anyway).

 

This is quite literally my first venture into Japanese military swords but would assume from looking that the tsuka/handle/habaki are held by a single screw through the handle? Is there anything I can 'fudge up' by taking it apart?

 

Thanks again,

 

Simon

[Bruce Pennington]

Simon,

 

I use a special tool, pic below, but before I found this, I simply used 2 small screwdrivers, both held tightly in one hand while turning the other side with a normal screw driver, to get the lower screw out. The one at the top simply needs a normal screwdriver on each side. The tassel loop has to be bent open to get it off. I wrap a cloth around some plyers to prevent scratching the loop. They are hard metal, so it takes some grunting, and you have to bend it out quite a ways to get both sides enough clearance to come out clean without scratching the paint on the tuska.

[CarlosFandango]

Simon,

I use a special tool, pic below, but before I found this, I simply used 2 small screwdrivers, both held tightly in one hand while turning the other side with a normal screw driver, to get the lower screw out. The one at the top simply needs a normal screwdriver on each side. The tassel loop has to be bent open to get it off. I wrap a cloth around some plyers to prevent scratching the loop. They are hard metal, so it takes some grunting, and you have to bend it out quite a ways to get both sides enough clearance to come out clean without scratching the paint on the tuska.

Thanks Bruce for your detailed advice. Sounds like quite a challenge for an amateur like me. I wonder if I might be better to take it to a specialist (if there are ones who deal with Type 95 NCO Swords)... But I'll certainly look to give it a go myself first.

 

Cheers

 

Simon.

[Shamsy]

Since you are after advice, the very best I can give you is not to handle the sword without a pair of cotten gloves. This is no nihonto and should be treated differently as such. The paint is original and is quite susceptible to being destroyed by the oils, acids and chemicals on human hands. Some people, through genes, have better or worse sweat for such things. Think of silver and how it tarnishes on some people but not others. Anyway, cotton gloves are $1 for two pairs at the supermarket. I always shudder as I watch people putting their hands all over these swords.

 

Considering that most of these swords have some degree of paint loss already, let's all have enough respect for history to treat these valuable and irreplaceable items with care.

 

Not targeting anyone here and I'm quite proud to say the attitude on NMB is quite exemplary.

[lonely panet]

top advice Steve

[CarlosFandango]

Steve,

 

Thanks for your sound advice. I will certainly invest in some cotton gloves for future handling of my sword. I'll also look to see if there are any specialists in the UK who can take a closer look at the corrosion.

 

To Everyone,

 

I'm amazed by the responses I've had on the forum. I'm so impressed with the depth of knowledge and willingness to pass on invaluable information. Thank you all.

 

Simon.

[Brian]

Steve,

 

Thanks for your sound advice. I will certainly invest in some cotton gloves for future handling of my sword. I'll also look to see if there are any specialists in the UK who can take a closer look at the corrosion.

 

To Everyone,

 

I'm amazed by the responses I've had on the forum. I'm so impressed with the depth of knowledge and willingness to pass on invaluable information. Thank you all.

 

Simon.

Shhhhhhh!

Don't tell anyone. We are supposed to be an elitist bunch of SOB's that intimidate and ridicule newcomers and won't discuss anything besides traditionally made Nihonto 

[Stephen]

NCOs never quite go back together as tight as org, id give it a light clean with tooth brush and gun oil, and leave it as is, making sure oil goes in the habaki. 

[Shamsy]

NCOs never quite go back together as tight as org, id give it a light clean with tooth brush and gun oil, and leave it as is, making sure oil goes in the habaki.

 

Agreed. There's usually not a great deal to see in the tang of the NCO. Having said that, Bruce recently took a first pattern wooden handle apart and found a tang stamp, which was certainly interesting. I think that now the sword is in a stable environment Stephens advice is sound. A little oil on the blade and some careful attention to the leather on the rare occasion. Nothing that will change the shade mind. Also be careful of the stitching. If oil or any sort of liquid gets on old stitching it tends to rot or disintegrate. The cover is a big part of making this blade special, so worth taking some extra time.

 

Have you determined if the cover was originally full length yet?

[CarlosFandango]

Agreed. There's usually not a great deal to see in the tang of the NCO. Having said that, Bruce recently took a first pattern wooden handle apart and found a tang stamp, which was certainly interesting. I think that now the sword is in a stable environment Stephens advice is sound. A little oil on the blade and some careful attention to the leather on the rare occasion. Nothing that will change the shade mind. Also be careful of the stitching. If oil or any sort of liquid gets on old stitching it tends to rot or disintegrate. The cover is a big part of making this blade special, so worth taking some extra time.

Have you determined if the cover was originally full length yet?

Thanks Steve. The blade does have that 'oily' smell to it already but I will add a little more as advised.

 

Thanks also for the advice on the cover. I will be very careful with that. The leather is currently quite supple.

 

I still haven't found anything about the cover length online. Although I see they were often on the Type 94 officers swords, but nothing relating to NCOs. I live a few miles from a place called Chiddingstone Castle in England and there's a collection of Nihonto up there. I might pop up so they may have any idea or know someone who would.

 

Thanks again,

 

Simon.

[CarlosFandango]

NCOs never quite go back together as tight as org, id give it a light clean with tooth brush and gun oil, and leave it as is, making sure oil goes in the habaki.

 

Stephen, great advice which I will follow as per my previous message.

 

Thank you sir.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Steve. The blade does have that 'oily' smell to it already but I will add a little more as advised.

Thanks also for the advice on the cover. I will be very careful with that. The leather is currently quite supple.

I still haven't found anything about the cover length online. Although I see they were often on the Type 94 officers swords, but nothing relating to NCOs. I live a few miles from a place called Chiddingstone Castle in England and there's a collection of Nihonto up there. I might pop up so they may have any idea or know someone who would.

Thanks again,

Simon.

Simon,

 

Here's a pic of an NCO Type 95 with full-length leather covers (from the 1987 Fuller and Gregory, Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945 (not a great pic, and it wasn't that clear in the book either, but the paragraph right by it describes it):

[CarlosFandango]

Simon,

Here's a pic of an NCO Type 95 with full-length leather covers (from the 1987 Fuller and Gregory, Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945 (not a great pic, and it wasn't that clear in the book either, but the paragraph right by it describes it):

Hello Bruce!

 

Thanks very much! That certainly answers my question...Seems to make sense from my very limited knowledge that the combat cover would be full. My half isn't 'finished' like you would expect at the end but it also looks like whoever done it, made a very good job as there's no curl or rough edges.

 

Again, my limited knowledge of Japanese soldiers in the field makes me think this was a combat field modification rather than something done by the person who brought it back home.....although why they would is another question..

 

As an aside, I really should invest in that book. It looks like an invaluable source of information and a fantastic read.

 

Kind regards,

 

Simon.

[Bruce Pennington]

Simon,

 

It's the first book Fuller & Gregory put out. You'll find it cheaper than their updated 1996 version, "Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks", which is thicker and has more information. However, the earlier edition still has a few pics, like the one above, that I don't see in the updated edition.

 

Also, a good book to have is Dawson's "Swords of Imperial Japan 1868-1945 Cyclopedia Edition.

 

Finally, FOR FREE is Ohmura's vast, and beautiful, study of WWII gunto - http://ohmura-study.net/900.html

[CarlosFandango]

Simon,

It's the first book Fuller & Gregory put out. You'll find it cheaper than their updated 1996 version, "Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks", which is thicker and has more information. However, the earlier edition still has a few pics, like the one above, that I don't see in the updated edition.

Also, a good book to have is Dawson's "Swords of Imperial Japan 1868-1945 Cyclopedia Edition.

Finally, FOR FREE is Ohmura's vast, and beautiful, study of WWII gunto - http://ohmura-study.net/900.html

Bruce,

 

Thank you very much for these recommendations. All look great reading material and will certainly help in my quest to find out much, much more about Japanese military swords. You're a star!

 

Thanks again,

 

Regards,

 

Simon

[CarlosFandango]

Actually, one final question. How would I be best to store this sword? Seems even that can be a work of art (in a good sense).

 

Simon.

[Shamsy]

Actually, one final question. How would I be best to store this sword? Seems even that can be a work of art (in a good sense).

Simon.

I'm not certain if you're talking about preservation or display, so I'll offer both.

 

For presentation it's pretty straight forward. Somewhere dry, out of direct sunlight and a with steady temperature is best. In UK, away from heaters or windows for example. With the occasional oiling, correct handling and treatment of leather it should last near indefinitely.

 

Presentation is quite personal. I keep mine on large, multi stand kake. As has been recently discussed, these swords would technically be stored blade down, as this is how they were worn. I've always stored mine blade up as a katana, and neither will really damage the sword or scabbard. These things are pretty robust. Hanging is another option, from the ring. Bearing in mind the preservation aspect, it's really your decision.

[CarlosFandango]

I'm not certain if you're talking about preservation or display, so I'll offer both.

For presentation it's pretty straight forward. Somewhere dry, out of direct sunlight and a with steady temperature is best. In UK, away from heaters or windows for example. With the occasional oiling, correct handling and treatment of leather it should last near indefinitely.

Presentation is quite personal. I keep mine on large, multi stand kake. As has been recently discussed, these swords would technically be stored blade down, as this is how they were worn. I've always stored mine blade up as a katana, and neither will really damage the sword or scabbard. These things are pretty robust. Hanging is another option, from the ring. Bearing in mind the preservation aspect, it's really your decision.

Thanks Steve!

 

I think preservation is the first option you give and that's really what I was after. Keeping the item stable/safe long term.

 

Appreciate your detailed advice.

 

If I move to a bigger house eventually, then I can look to add to the collection and also display

 

Kind regards,

 

Simon.