Vet Bring Back ...opinions Welcomed

[Chip62287]

New to collecting ...my first acquisition ...looking for any info ...had the tang fra sales here and was told the sword was made by Hizen Kuni Tadayoshi 9th generation. So is this an old sword that was fitted for military mounts ? Is it an older handmade sword ? Are the tassels correct ? I have no idea what condition the scabbard is in as I'm not sure if I should remove it from the leather cover . Does the length compromise the quality ? It looks well used and the vet who brought it back carved his name in the scabbard (which makes it very personal to me and adds to the story in my opinion )...any info is appreciated !

John C

[reeder]

Welcome!  I'm either missing the picture of the signature or it is not posted so I cannot comment on the translation.  Yes, it does look like an older sword remounted in WW2 Type 98 Shin-Gunto mounts w/ leather combat cover.  Yes, it looks like an older handmade blade to me.  If the tassel came with the sword I would not have any reason to doubt its authenticity, some of the repros seem scary good, I surely can't tell the difference.  It's your sword, if you like the leather combat cover, keep it on, if not, take it off.  You can see the outline of the fittings near the bottom of the scabbard, I would imagine the scabbard is just fine.  Longer swords are generally more desired, but length does not necessarily compromise quality.  Some people like the vet personalized look, others don't.  If you like it, I wouldn't pay any attention to how others feel about it.  Overall, it looks like a nice, clean example.  Far better than my first sword.

[Bruce Pennington]

John, The tassel looks legit. The all-brown tassel was late-war army officer, generic for all ranks. This does seem to have seen a good amount of use, and if so, it may have been brown and blue, or brown and red; but over time the colors fade. You might try untying that knot to see if there is some unfaded color inside. The pic makes it look like there is just a hint of blue showing in the knot.

 

Either way, it looks right.

[Kai-Gunto]

Brown tassel.

[Chip62287]

Sorry ...I had posted this pic in the translation section of this site and failed to include it with the other pics ...thoughts ?? Are the marks on the spacers etc proof marks or arsenal marks ...forgive my ignorance of the proper terminology ...still learning the language ...and it IS a whole new language ...been reading a bit and when you say hand forged are you saying in the traditional way or some other way ? Been trying to grasp the "traditional method" vs "semi traditional" vs machine made. Way more involved than what I've collected in the past though WAY more interesting ...thanks again

John C

[Stephen]

John 

 

ya haven't even dusted off the first page of nihonto...lol. Wakizashi taken to war are not the norm, nice pickup. Enjoy the adventure. 

[Chip62287]

And quite an adventure it promises to be ...any suggestions on books worth reading so I can catch up and be marginally informed on what you guys are talking about ? So your saying this is a short sword ...oldish (how old) from a well known smith ...I'm honored to be the caretaker and will pass this and hopefully more info on to the next generation so this tangible piece of history and its story is not lost ...Who would have carried this sword ? I'm reading pilots, tank crews etc but that seems a bit far fetched...been reading that short swords were favored in the close quarters of the jungle but then why would short swords be rare ? See ....confusing !!!

[SwordGuyJoe]

It could be for pilots or tank crew, but given that it isn't a blade constructed for the specific use of the wartime officer, it is less likely that could have been the application.  It was made as a wakizashi long before the officer was born, so if he was a pilot or tank crew, it is merely coincidental and not indicative of the fact that this is an army mounted wakizashi.  One caveat could be if the officer bought the wakizashi and had it mounted in this fashion for this specific purpose.  Good luck proving that though!  I have not seen any articles that draw factual conclusions that wakizashi sales specifically increased due to officers requiring shorter swords for service in the air and tank corps.  Possible?  Yes.  More likely than an officer who toted a wakizashi to war?  Far more likely in my opinion.

[Dave R]

 Follow up on some of the threads discussing rarity and production numbers, including origins of the "Type 3" Shin Gunto. You have a lot of reading in front of you, Military mounted Wakizashi were not the norm, but still not rare. Reasons for this being as varied as (lack of) availability of new blades, preference for what was a secondary weapon, and convenience in confined spaces. Everyone has their own pet theory, including me.

[Bruce Pennington]

John,

 

I benefited (and still do!) greatly from the 65+ pages of Ohmura's website on WWII gunto:

http://ohmura-study.net/900.html

It's FREE and has many great pics!

 

There are several books, but I've started with:

 

"Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks", Richard Fuller and Ron Gregory, 1996 ed. (made the mistake of buying the 1987 version - "Military Swords of Japan," the 1996 ed is greatly improved)

 

and

 

"Swords of Imperial Japan 1868-1945 Cyclopedia Edition", Jim Dawson

[Stephen]

And above is just military, your sword goes back to at least 1800s, lots of googling to do, have fun.

[Chip62287]

Bought the 1986 version ...the newer version is $200 ! Same with the Dawson's book ...sure they are worth it ...just looking for some less expensive options right now ...thanks for all your help though ...looking forward to exploring my newest obsession

[Chip62287]

By the way ...what IS you theory Dave ?

John C

[Dave R]

 My theory is that with the massive and unforeseen expansion of the IJA  due to the "Great East Asia War" the demand for officers swords outran production, to the extent that some carried any decent blade they could get their hands on. Another factor is that if you are not a trained swordsman a shorter blade is more manageable. Contemporary photo's show quite a few shorter blades carried by officers, and NCO's. I have an album of photo's downloaded from the internet and Japanese officers seem to have carried allsorts.

[Stephen]

 

 

All good primers

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/20006-t%C5%8Ds%C5%8Dgu-kod%C5%8Dgu-nihont%C5%8D-books-for-sale-part-3/

 

27} x3 Books, One Price

a} "The Samurai Sword: A Handbook" ~ By John M. Yumoto ~ 33rd printing 1996 ~ HC / DJ

b} "The Japanese Sword: A Comprehensive Guide" ~ By Kanzan Satō & Joe Earle (translator) ~ 1983 ~ HC / DJ

c} "The Craft of the Japanese Sword" ~ By Leon / Hiroko Kapp & Yoshindo Yoshihara ~ 1987 ~ HC / DJ
$25-

[mauser99]

Wonderfull looking sword.  welcome to sword collecting  it's a lot of fun...

[Chip62287]

Can anyone tell me what the markings/numbers on the spacers/hand guards are ? Looks like a small star a number and something that also looks like the number 9...sorry I don't have the nomenclature down yet ...still learning

John C

[paul griff]

Hello,

Nice sword and I agree the veterans name carved into the saya adds to the swords appeal...The marks on the washers (seppa) and guard (tsuba) are all arsenal assembly details and when they are all matching it normally means nobody has taken it apart and messed around with the bits.....nice and original as when it was put together in the assembly area but using a traditional old blade.

Regards,

Paul...

[Chip62287]

Does anyone feel it's a blade worth having polished ? There are a few small nicks in the blade ...not sure if it's value warrants it ?

[lonely panet]

You will get a better understanding of the blades quality by showing a togishi, and asking his opinion.

 

But it cant hurt to post some good photos to share with the board

[Chip62287]

I did post pics...top of the post ...take a look and let me k ow what you think

[Greg F]

Hamish is right some more pics of the blade would bring more opinions to help answer your question.

 

Greg

[lonely panet]

you need to get some really clear close ups of the hole blade, or atleat the best and worst areas.

 

if you follow the list it may help everyone, just a guide of polishing. normally $1500-2500.

 

kissaki (tip)

 

Hamachi and munemachi (were the habaki sits)

 

the clearest hamon and Ji hada you can photograph

 

and lastly and cracks, chips, pitted rust and anything odd looking.

 

this is what you would like your pics to look like (rough guide)

[Chip62287]

Wow ...had no idea ...I don't think this sword is worth much more than that but I'm not really sure ...and will polishing increase its value significantly ?