Zeros Correct On This Sale?

[Stephen]

150K correct?

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-bizen-koku-osafune-junin-samamosuke-sanemori-zo23th-nbthk-tokubetsu-juyo-paper

 

Juyo 13th century so must be huh?

[DirkO]

Kamakura, Dated, zaimei, ubu and Tokubetsu Juyo? seems about right 

[mywei]

A signed, dated, ubu nakago, Kamakura Bizen tachi with TokuJu papers and in great health. A sublime blade I think.

 

You betcha that amount of zeros

[Stephen]

Heavy sigh....clearing throat  to sing song from fiddler on the roof!!  lol! 

[seattle1]

Hello:

 Aoi reports this morning a successful sale of the Sanemori. I wasn't watching the auction last night so I don't know if it went over the starting price.

 Does anyone have further details?

 Arnold F.

[Stephen]

All i could find is the ON HOLD

[Ray Singer]

There were no bids at auction, so I assume someone made an offer after the auction closed.

 

http://www.sword-auction.jp/en/content/as16327-%E5%A4%AA%E5%88%80%EF%BC%9A%E5%82%99%E5%89%8D%E5%9B%BD%E9%95%B7%E8%88%B9%E4%BD%8F%E4%BA%BA%E5%B7%A6%E9%A6%AC%E5%85%81%E7%9C%9F%E5%AE%88%E9%80%A0%E7%AC%AC23%E5%9B%9E%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5%E9%87%8D%E8%A6%81%E5%88%80%E5%89%A3-katana-bizen-koku-osafune-junin-samamosuke-sanemori-zo

 

Best regards,

Ray

[seattle1]

Hello:

 It probably did sell as when something does not sell it either goes into their for sale group at a given price, or it is withdrawn.

 Some pricey blades have been moving and the upper end of the market, along with the lower end. There are many factors at play but in that Japanese swords are pure appreciation plays on the long side as they only yield utility to the owner and no flow of income, therefore when the cost of money is so very low internationally as it is now, the risk of holding such tangibles is reduced, other things equal, and one would expect some strength at the market's upper end. The benchmark US 10 year Treasury is at an historic low and negative interest rates are popping up all over, so I would think that lots of tangibles like swords, gold bullion - which has had a nice run up recently - would be strong.

 As a caveat however I am definitely not advising anyone to buy Japanese swords as investment vehicles.

 Arnold F.

[Surfson]

Only problem is that the dollar is sinking vis a vis the yen.  I bought a couple nice swords from Tsuruta San when it hit 125 Y/D, but now it's 100 and the prices are not nearly as appealing!  As to the original sword mentioned, I saw it in the auction and then it did, indeed, come back to the sales page this AM.  It's impressive that it sold today, and I imagine that it went at or very near the asking price based on his MO.  

[seattle1]

Hello Bob:

 I have been trying to figure our your point of the dollar sinking vis-à-vis the JPY. At a moment of time and abstracting from transaction cost and other impediments, spot exchange rates are not a determinant of investment or speculation choices. In the last year the Japanese Yen has appreciated about 19 % relative to the USD, and at the same time the US Treasury 10 year has fallen from about 2.4% to about 1.4%, an historic low, and a fall of about 42%. In another post thread recently in response to another question by Stephen I tried to explain the appreciation of the JPY over the last few years, and said that in lieu of some "great unforeseen" it doesn't look like it will reverse course anytime soon.

 I have never recommended investing in art for some fairly simple economic reasons, but nonetheless at this time it is not surprising to see price appreciatio0n in upper end art objects of all kinds, including Japanese swords. In the paragraph above two points jump out: 1. a proxy for the opportunity cost of capital can be taken to be the US 10 year, and it has fallen in a year by about 42%, and: 2. the JPY has strongly appreciated. I think it follows thereby that by buying storable tangibles, as most art objects are, the forgone opportunity cost of doing that has fallen almost flat, and it is obvious that if you buy a tangible, like a Japanese sword, which probably has its market value still determined in Japan, wouldn't you want that asset value (JPY!) to be appreciating? It seems therefore that the rise in the Yen is an incentive to buy not to forego buying, again, other things equal. When people do acquire tangible art objects, the risk, relative to financial alternatives yielding similar nominal returns  tends to be forgotten, and therein lies the risk of "investing" in art. I believe we should buy such things for what they are and not for imagined future returns.

 Arnold F.

[Surfson]

Hi Arnold.  As usual, there is a lot of content in your post.  I guess my approach to collecting, much influenced by cost, is a result of my personal situation for so many years.  I really didn't have cash to invest in swords.  Between kids, mortgage, expensive spouse (now ex!), the only way I could build a collection was through sweat equity.  By that I mean that I ran ads in all the local papers - penny saver, Baltimore Sun, several others.  I bought as many swords as I could, at around half of the value that I knew I could sell them.  You may recall that in the 80's, the Japanese dealers were scooping up swords by the 100s at each show.  With the "profits", I was able to keep some of them.  Unfortunately, I could never keep the best ones since it tied up too much of the capital that I needed to buy swords with, so my collection was really mediocre when compared with the best swords that I was buying.  Nonetheless, i enjoyed it anyway.  In the last decade, with the kids finished with college, and a few other good twists of events, I have focused on buying the best shoshin blades on eBay with the intention of restoring them.  With the expense of restorations, the original purchase etc., the hobby is no longer cash flow positive (even though I think that there is net value should I sell the collection), but the collection is considerably more enjoyable.  So getting back to cost, I still can't shake the ethos that I only buy swords that I think I can at least get my money out of when I move them along.  I don't always succeed, but that is the goal.  When the yen raced from 75 to the dollar up to 125 to the dollar, all of a sudden it became possible to buy swords from Japan that were actually cheaper than market price in the US.  As the Yen climbs back up, that moment in time is sadly fading.  Cheers, Bob

[Gabriel L]

That's a starting price. I don't even remember the last time I saw a Kamakura piece with long date. Wouldn't be surprised for this to pass $200k.

[Surfson]

I could be wrong, but I think that the auction is over and the sword is back in the store inventory.  

[Gabriel L]

I could be wrong, but I think that the auction is over and the sword is back in the store inventory.  

 

Ah yes, I see it's listed as consignment sale now.

[Surfson]

It's still available - maybe it could be yoursl!!!