Seiryuken Eiju Sold For 1,132,000 Yen (€10 346,48) On Yahoo.jp

[Thierry BERNARD]

http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e189354859

[Brian]

Their average stuff is just meh.....but the top stuff is...well....you can see it here

[Ford Hallam]

superb! :-)

[Greg F]

WOW WOW WOW

 

Greg

[Pete Klein]

I have some serious doubt on the validity of the mei. There is a gap in the fluidity between the recorded mei and this one and the gold kakihan is set at an angle which is a bit strange for an item supposedly of high quality.

 

Here are scans of the page from Wakayama vol. II:

 

 

I have commented on this buyer in the past and it seems he has no problem with throwing large amounts of money at un-papered items. What he does is his business but I do not see this value on this piece. Each to his own, of course.

[Ford Hallam]

[Pete Klein]

As I wrote, to each his own.

[Bob M.]

So... Obvious quality of the piece is subordinate to a tick box exercise on the mei ?  How comprehensive is the signature information ?

 

Whats next ? Should this tsuba be destroyed as a fake ?

 

Whose papers are more valuable and genuine than the piece itself ?

 

This is typical of people with a mindset that says monetary value tops quality and artistic merit. Such sentiments should be consigned to the rubbish bin where they belong.

 

Bob M.

[RobertM]

My standard Eiju tsuba. By the same hand?

 

Rob M

[Pete Klein]

Ok -- Ford had a comment to my observations which he deleted leaving only an 'I dunno' which I quite honestly find to be a bit unfair as I had replied 'to each his own' to what he posted, my intent being IOW's that we can have our own opinions - big whoop. Now we have someone asking, "What's next ? Should this tsuba be destroyed as a fake "?

 

Gentlemen, every member here has the right, actually the 'obligation' to share their observations and experience when/where called for. If you disagree with a posting, good for you. Fill us with your enlightenment, but don't go shuffling the deck mid play or jump to irrational conclusions simply because someone disagrees with you. The images I posted are the four printed in Wakayama, 'Toso Kodogu Meiji Taikei' which is one of the two meikan used by 'ALL' of the shinsa organizations so rest assured I didn't just find them somewhere at random and post them. I see issues with their construction which leads me to question if this is actually by said artist. I would have required an NBTHK shinsa result before paying such an amount. That's it. What escapes many is that there were very highly skilled craftsmen in Japan who made their livings by faking these items and it is imperative that the serious collector be aware of this and not rush to emotional judgements.

[Brian]

Agreed.
I think it's shoshin, so does Ford. But EVERYONE is allowed their opinion, and anyone can argue said point by showing their reasoning. The day we stop opinions, is the day I shut this down.
Pete, you have been following this mystery buyer for a while now. Seems he has a pattern. Curious guy, with a lot of money.

[Ford Hallam]

Pete, my apologies, I didn't delete my comments to make you look silly. I thought your response, "to each their own",  merely meant you were not interested in discussing the points I'd raised. So I thought, there wasn't any point in my having written anything in the first place.

 

I wrote that I felt the reliance on a few examples as used by Shinsa judges was not satisfactory. The notion that mei were relatively unchanging over the course of an artists career is simply not credible to me.

The reference mei that we and the NBTHK et al, in Japan are reliant on is woefully inadequate.

 

The quality of the tsuba under discussion is excellent, quite probably as fine a work as this artist is likely to have made. With this work the equal of Shoami Katsuyoshi and Hagia Katsuhira, imo.

 

I don't see the mei as being less fluid than the examples in Wakayama either, if anything it's more confidant and expressive.

 

And the seal is not supposed to be all level and square in Japanese art, the examples in Wakayama are hardly all regular either.

 

So, when you responded to those points I made by simply saying, "to each their own" I recognised there was no discussion to be had with you. I felt you might just as well said; "what ever..."

[Dojikiri]

This is my Eiju, I bought it some years ago but I have never checked the mei, it is very thick and heavy for its size.

 

Alan

[Ford Hallam]

Alan,

 hard to judge from the image but it this iron or non-ferrous? If looks brass/bronze to me....

[Dojikiri]

Hi Ford,

I think it is shibuichi, when I acquired it the very thin patina was perfect but now it is showing some wear on the reverse. If you look at the larger image I can see what I think is some sort of deposit around the scales and elsewhere. Do you think it may have been re-patinated in the west?

 

Alan

[manfrommagnum]

Well, I have to say that the old addage is true, things are worth only what others are willing to pay, informed or not. I think it is one of the nicest tsuba i have seen. But would never pay that much...

[Ford Hallam]

My standard Eiju tsuba. By the same hand?

 

Rob M

Rob, you might be interested to see that there's a very similar tsuba to yours in the Ashmolean.

http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10392/20814

[Ford Hallam]

I just happened to have one lying around too...tsuba seem to just appear out of nowhere in my studio, it's weird.

 

 

[Shugyosha]

Now that's a pretty thing. 

 

I'd much rather own that than the dragon tsuba that went for an arm and a leg, but what do I know.

[Brian]

I like your second one a lot Ford. The first.....formulaic. They did a ton of those, had one myself.  Second one is unusual from the regular work I have seen. Nicely signed too.