Fake Type 95 Nco Swords

[Stegel]

From what i can see, Scabbard is obviously non genuine.

Blade IMO is Authentic, fonts,patina and all.

Handle has been repainted, tsuba and fuchi over polished, and good reproduction tassel added.

The fuchi has correct stampings for that serial number range, so i would put any reservations of the suya stamp down to over polishing and possible photography being not the best.

[Shamsy]

Now it's not the early hours of the morning a nd I'm marginally more awake, I stand by my original assessment. That aligns with what you also think, Stegal.

[Bruce Pennington]

Ditto

[WilBru5]

How about pinning this post??

The other day I was looking at a type 95... and knowing I had read this post before, scanned down to reference it again.

There is a great amount of discussion and photographic evidence here which is very helpful to all.  Someone new might miss this post.

It would be great to have it right up front.

[Brian]

We have someone hopefully compiling all the info into a document. It is fragmented across a few posts. But don't worry, I won't let the info get buried.

[Shamsy]

A Chinese fake of a Gifu marked NCO. The main three tells here are the bohi, the placement of the saya ring and the quality/fonts of the stamps.

[Bruce Pennington]

Boy, they are getting better at the Kokura stamp!

[zook]

That's exactly what jumped out at me Bruce! ... the spacing is still off, but that stamp used to be an easy give-away, but this sample .... whew !

[Smee78]

+1 for Bruce.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Found this photo online-full crate of Chinese made Type 95 handles & Tsuba.

 

[Shamsy]

Thanks for sharing, Trystan. I can't see much of the detail, but I hope they're the same low quality junk. Eventually I suppose the fakes will be near indistinguishable from real swords... or perhaps entirely indistinguishable. Ah well, at least I'll know my small collection is real.

[Smee78]

Trystan that is a scarry looking picture. That is alot of fakes that will be released on to the market, they even have the tsubas thrown into that box. I concour that the hope is that they are low quality fakes that can be eazy to spot. It makes you wonder how much they really have (materials, labor) into these fakes, what is their cost to make them?

[BANGBANGSAN]

Trystan that is a scarry looking picture. That is alot of fakes that will be released on to the market, they even have the tsubas thrown into that box. I concour that the hope is that they are low quality fakes that can be eazy to spot. It makes you wonder how much they really have (materials, labor) into these fakes, what is their cost to make them?

Fake  95 sold around $30-50 in China.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Thanks for sharing, Trystan. I can't see much of the detail, but I hope they're the same low quality junk. Eventually I suppose the fakes will be near indistinguishable from real swords... or perhaps entirely indistinguishable. Ah well, at least I'll know my small collection is real.

I'm glad those Chinese counterfeiters not that good yet.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Here is the better quality Type 95 copy from Longquan sword maker in China just list on eBay.Not all the detail correct, but it looks nicer than the other wannabe.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/95-CHI-Japanese-ARMY-OFFICER-1095-CARBON-STEEL-CLAY-TEMPERED-KATANA-SWORD/143492917180?hash=item2168d827bc:g:WEMAAOSw-9NcvsDb

[BANGBANGSAN]

Here is the better quality Type 95 copy from Longquan sword maker in China just list on eBay.Not all the detail correct, but it looks nicer than the other wannabe.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/95-CHI-Japanese-ARMY-OFFICER-1095-CARBON-STEEL-CLAY-TEMPERED-KATANA-SWORD/143492917180?hash=item2168d827bc:g:WEMAAOSw-9NcvsDb

 

[Austus]

Sorry to say; but that's a good lookin' sword.  But why the hamon? It's not real, right? How do they do that?  Why go to the trouble to put a nice looking but improper hamon there that would alert even novices to the truth of its authenticity?  If it's not being marketed as a true NCO sword, is it really a fake? 

[zook]

Ideally, they would market it as a replica sword.  Some words get lost in translation, but I think this seller in China is trying to market a fantasy, modern sword based on a type 95 base design.   Sure - he does state it's new.    Austus -  what we can't overlook is the fact that some folks market things as true copies or replicas, only for 3rd party folks to buy them and become "re-sellers" with dark intentions.   

For instance,  I wouldn't put it past someone like Sea Monkey (aka Samurai Monkey) to buy one of these, then modify it in some way or throw an original saya on it and market it as some sort of original "prototype" sword … I know it sounds crazy, but we've seen him market some goofy stuff.   That's just my opinion/concern …  Dan 

[Shamsy]

Correct, Dan. The Polish swords are a replica, sometimes artificially aged and sold as genuine. The original intent is not deception, but money is a motivation which for some people is stronger than their moral compass.

[Austus]

Hey, Dan, you're absolutely right about everything you said; except maybe this particular specimen doesn't fit the OP -- it's not trying to be a Type 95.  If this blade is actually what they say it is; then we better be worried if these guys decide to do counterfeits instead of replicas.(Or is it reproductions?)  I was partly challenging the website claims; and wondering if they could be true. I don't see how; but if not, then they're lying about a fantasy sword.

 

If the prices of Type 95s keep going up, you better believe there will be a lot of fakes out there in the future.  Good ones.

[zook]

On 3rd Reich original militaria ... anything valued over roughly 40.00 USD, I've seen fakes trying to be sold as the real deal.    

[SAS]

Ncos would wish they had that sword!

[Shamsy]

There's nothing really new about the construction of this sword that makes it any less obvious as a Chinese fake, but the stamps are really halfway decent and worth sharing.

[zook]

Based on Steve's last post, I can only imagine (sarcastically) some guy in a remote shop, somewhere in China saying, " with everyone working from home, I have time on my hands ... I gotta get these stamps looking better!" ...      can definitely see steady improvement in the copies, especially if one looks at all the historical posts and just looks at the trend of improvement.  

[PNSSHOGUN]

What do we make of this one from our old friend? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-WWll-Army-officers-NCO-sword-copper-handle-mountings/233570732916?hash=item3661e68b74:g:weMAAOSwsEtepNo2

 

 

[Ontario_Archaeology]

Doesn't look too bad. Also isn't 1766 (blade) an extremely low production number? An argument can be made that the unmatching scabbard is a replacement during war time.

[BANGBANGSAN]

I saw a few of these Copper handle with extra screw on the handle before,maybe wartime replacement?

 

 

What do we make of this one from our old friend? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-WWll-Army-officers-NCO-sword-copper-handle-mountings/233570732916?hash=item3661e68b74:g:weMAAOSwsEtepNo2

 

s-l1600.jpg

[Shamsy]

I believe Stegel and i share the same opinion. Some of these have been added post war, but a few are genuine.

 

The sword you've provided as a reference, Trystan, is one of the genuine examples. That is a genuine copper handle and blade but with a replacement tsuba. As the pattern 1 tsuka is thicker than usual, the few replacements of iron I've seen have usually been thicker themselves. They also have the second screw added, which I will speculate occurred when the tsuba was replaced, likely at an arsenal.

 

However, a number of copper tsuka have been sold in the last two or three years. When they turn up on a pattern 2 or 3 sword, I call shenanigans. I know monkey has also swapped parts around, including coppers, which was posted as an example somewhere on this forum.

 

Short version: some genuine, some not. All genuine ones seem to also have iron tsuka replacement, but the rest of the sword is full pattern 1 parts. Anything else, be very suspicious.

[BANGBANGSAN]

Steve

I agree with you.Some of these swords are genuine, some not.

To me, as long as the numbers on the blade in the right range, changed iron guard, or add a screw on the handel(either wartime repair or later work) is still considering the first pattern but not fully original.Copper Handel with the high numbered blade is not.

 

I believe Stegel and i share the same opinion. Some of these have been added post war, but a few are genuine.

The sword you've provided as a reference, Trystan, is one of the genuine examples. That is a genuine copper handle and blade but with a replacement tsuba. As the pattern 1 tsuka is thicker than usual, the few replacements of iron I've seen have usually been thicker themselves. They also have the second screw added, which I will speculate occurred when the tsuba was replaced, likely at an arsenal.

However, a number of copper tsuka have been sold in the last two or three years. When they turn up on a pattern 2 or 3 sword, I call shenanigans. I know monkey has also swapped parts around, including coppers, which was posted as an example somewhere on this forum.

Short version: some genuine, some not. All genuine ones seem to also have iron tsuka replacement, but the rest of the sword is full pattern 1 parts. Anything else, be very suspicious.

[Shamsy]

This deserves a place here as a side note that while uncommon, the restamping of saya to match the blade does happen, when two unmatched pieces are slapped together. It's shoddy work.

 

The parts are original, but the sword has now been doctored to appear as something it isn't to deceive the buyer and attract a higher price.