Fake Type 95 Nco Swords

[dido]

bought by me for $1

[The Blacksmith]

  Then you got a good deal!

[robinalexander]

  Nice one @dido I always wanted one for the scotch thistles (paddocks of them). None of mine are going that way or getting swung around the garage!

 

Astute purchase 

[Shamsy]

On 1/12/2024 at 2:14 AM, TimJ said:

 

 

You alway need to look at the sword as a whole.

 

I've posted comparison pictures of bohi before, maybe in this thread or elsewhere, not sure. They vary considerably, even with the same manufacturer. Iijima is a great example of lack of consistency between swords during production. Some bohi are lovely and defined, others the 'grinder' style with less defined terminations at either end. Neither means much on their own.

 

As pointed out, the same is not dimpled as often seen on fakes. It can be quite flat though and that's fine.

 

The fuchi stamps look correct, clear and defined.

 

Handle lacks paint, but that's a potential warning sign, not proof of being fake.

 

Saya paint is weird, but there are a variety of shades used. Can't see under the cover but the wear and patina would be the better indicator than shade (pretty sure there are no other photos, right?). Agree cover is probably just something added later.

 

I don't see anything else that's a glaring issue, so I'll add a little detail that's a positive sign. Have a gander through this thread (it's a long one I know). Fakes very rarely get serial number details right - matching the font in style, space and size. The 7 in this example has the characteristic 'kick' at the very start of the horizontal stroke. That little down line. The size and positioning of the numbers are spot on. For all 95s, as well as the 7, other good numbers to look at are the 4 and 1 in serial numbers. Check some real examples from the same manufacturer and compare (but always bear in mind the possibility of exceptions).

 

Another little detail I like is the shallow stamp. Gifu seem to have liked adding  the Nagoya stamp after heat treating blades. 

 

Last little positive detail, the kissaki is defined. Fakes often have a smooth termination without definition. 

 

Here are some of my Gifu to compare. Not the best pictures, but all have the Nagoya stamp after the numbers, shallow and hard to see as they are post heat treating. The same in most are pretty flat too. See what you think. I'm not providing an answer, only what I observe.

 

It's important to form your own opinions. I've seen a few unsubstantiated claims about Japanese military swords including 95s, touted as fact, so please be critical and always state when something is an opinion or hypothesis. We don't need another Type 44-Type 0-SNLF debacle, crew gusto assumption based on nothing or 'paratrooper sword' nonsense that people then take as gospel.

 

I only popped in to offer some assistance to someone asking so had a quick look around. I'll catch you all again some time!

 

P.S. If you ever come to Australia, Bruce, make sure you visit! Open invitation. 

 

[Brian]

Asking advice on this one, sent to me by a friend here, asking if it's ok.
Some parts look ok, but I'm concerned about a few things too. Hi looks wide. I've asked for pics of the stamps, serial and both sides of the habaki.
Can you say anything based on these pics so far?

 

[John C]

The tsuba is a little concerning. The middle should be flat and not peaked like that; corners seem too sharp as well. But maybe it's a variation I haven't seen before.

 

John C.

[robinalexander]

Brian I appreciate that you don't have better pics available yet and as you know that always makes it difficult.

 

For what MO is worth, based on what can be seen so far .....

 

1. something not right with that tsuka ......see picture attached ..lack of detail on kabutogane  .....looks like badly cast copy.

 

2. as you point out, that bohi is really bad, too thick and starts and ends poorly.

 

3. the saya throat looks unusually 'heavy' and lacking basic shape for an early 95 ... pic of one of mine attached for reference?

 

Look forward to seeing pics of blade number/stamps and also saya throat.  That could change my initial opinion (but unlikely)

 

If your friend hasn't purchased it yet, I would definitely hold off until all relevant pictures produced.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Trying to get the additional pics. Let's hope he sends them. This one confuses me.

[paul griff]

Hello Brian,

                   100% fake….Very crude moulding to the tsuka,the detail is awful especially the wobbly join line plus the securing screw and sarute fitting is modern brass by the look…that bohi is also dreadful…..One for the scrap pile I’m afraid….

Best Regards,

                       Paul

[Brian]

As I suspected, which is why I sought confirmation here.

Don't suppose he'll believe me, but it is what it is. I wonder the origin considering it is well aged.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

The mekugi screw is standard for the Chinese fakes, as is the tsuka that has clearly never seen a layer of paint.  The tsuka looks just like the ones shown by Trystan, @BANGBANGSAN, in a recent photo from a Chinese factory.  It had an overflowing box of these tsuka.  Wish I could find that photo, so I could file it.

 

I don't know how they age the saya so well, but they've figured out how to do it.

[JohnWB]

2 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Wish I could find that photo, so I could file it.

 

Here you go Bruce:

 

 

 

Link to the comment:

 

[Bruce Pennington]

That's the one, John, thanks!  Now it's in the files.

[JoeZ]

I came across this thread and wanted to join and ask a question.  A sword came into my position some years ago and I’m looking to sell it.  Not sure if it’s real or fake and having a hard time figuring it out.  I don’t want to overcharge someone but I also don’t want to sell it too cheap.   It’s in a frame so it’s difficult to see all the details.  There appears to be serial numbers on it.   Any thoughts, tips, or advice?

[John C]

4 hours ago, JoeZ said:

Any thoughts, tips, or advice?

Joe:

I do not believe it is a real Japanese sword. One give-away is the 40127 "serial number." This is a common number on these.

As an example, here is another one:

https://www.proxibid...ard-17-blade-sn40127

 

John C.

[JoeZ]

Thanks for your feedback. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, you would have to advertise it as a Japanese sword replica. If you sold it in that display case, you might get a little more money for it that way.

[Bruce Pennington]

@Kiipu

Thomas, do you have the serial number range that the Seki Token Co. used this logo?  A guy over on Wehrmacht-awards is asking about a Type 95 via PM.  I'm asking for better photos.  If legit, it's rare one, missing the Arsenal stamp, but I'm wondering if it's one of the Polish replicas.  The overall photo isn't good enough to tell for sure, but I have doubts about the serial number being 5 digits for that stamp.  Also, the NA stamp is too indented and both stamps, under zoom, show bare metal, like they haven't been there long enough.

[BANGBANGSAN]

5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

@Kiipu

Thomas, do you have the serial number range that the Seki Token Co. used this logo?  A guy over on Wehrmacht-awards is asking about a Type 95 via PM.  I'm asking for better photos.  If legit, it's rare one, missing the Arsenal stamp, but I'm wondering if it's one of the Polish replicas.  The overall photo isn't good enough to tell for sure, but I have doubts about the serial number being 5 digits for that stamp.  Also, the NA stamp is too indented and both stamps, under zoom, show bare metal, like they haven't been there long enough.

 

According to records the range of Seki Token Co from lower 82K-100K,This one is outside the range #130557（not 5 digit),but it looks legit to me。

 

 

[John C]

5 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

being 5 digits for that stamp

I'm not liking the font on the numbers. The 5 is wrong and the 1 looks like the mark on top was added. Of course, if it is early or a different arsenal, then the font may have changed. 

The pic is what the later font looks like.

John C.

[BANGBANGSAN]

28 minutes ago, John C said:

I'm not liking the font on the numbers. The 5 is wrong and the 1 looks like the mark on top was added. Of course, if it is early or a different arsenal, then the font may have changed. 

The pic is what the later font looks like.

John C.

Nagoya has the different font than Tokyo 1st

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

#130557

Oh!  Missed that "7", thanks Trystan.

 

 

[b0s11]

Hey there, new to the forum, I have searched and searched and cannot for the life of me find anything like what I have. I probably just have not found it yet but I need help with finding out if my sword is a fake. One of the key signs of a fake is writing on the blade, besides the serial number of course. Mine has writing on both sides of the blade. I am now terrified it is fake. 

[Brian]

Afraid it is. That rule has no exceptions.

[b0s11]

29 minutes ago, Brian said:

Afraid it is. That rule has no exceptions.

Darn. Explains why it was given to me for free haha. Cheers Brian.

[Abaris]

Even if fake, it has a price. So if it was given for free, you have something.

[Bruce Pennington]

An interesting fake/replica over on this Guns.ru Thread (not the sword at the top, but the second one further down).  It's in civil fittings, but the standard Iijima-style fake - Tokyo inspector stamp, but Nagoya bohi.  The unusual thing is they put the serial number on the wrong side of the blade.  The nakago is wrong and they attempted a mei.

[Kantaro]

Wonder if this one is a fake too?

[Kantaro]

Compared with some others 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, Paris, it's fake.

 

Wrong bohi for a Tokyo 1st blade, punched dimples in tsuka, thin, squared-off latch, wrong positioning of the serial number.