Fake Type 95 Nco Swords

[John C]

To me, it looks real but highly refurbished. The tsuka looks legit; the menuki look correct; the bohi looks correct; the serial number (the 3 in particular) looks correct. But the whole thing looks repainted, polished, and possible parts replaced.

John C.

[vajo]

Island Type98 or Fake?

It's an auction offer on egun. Owner says he paid 1.000 EUR as he bought it from an auction house and will not remove the tsuka. 

 

 

 

Tsuka has two mekugi 

Habaki is brass with a number 95678

Seppa looks like chinese standard.

The ito maki is worse, the knot ugly.

Maybe the fuchi is upside down assembled.

The blade looks grinded round and out of shape. The yokote is missing.

 

4 days left. Price is now 555 EUR.

https://www.egun.de/...item.php?id=19288293

 

Maybe the number on the habaki is interesting for @Bruce Pennington

 

[Bruce Pennington]

At best, it is something made over in China during the war. The kissaki has that Chinese angular look, like you said, the handle wrap is Chinese, and the numbers on the habaki are classic Chinese. The scabbard fittings look normal and show plenty of wear. The whole thing looks like it has age. So it is possible this is something made over an occupied China. However, worst case is it could be a pure fake with piece together legitimate parts. Very hard to say.

[Kiipu]

A Chinese reproduction from around 25 years ago.

[vajo]

Some parts look authentic like the saya fittings. The saya itself could be replica. I think someone "improves" the chinese copy with parts? The guy has 88 bids on this sword and 40 followers for the auction. 

[Bruce Pennington]

You're both probably right.  On reflection, the legit Chinese railway swords posted by @BANGBANGSAN never have numbers this big.  

[Bruce Pennington]

For future readers, I'm linking a discussion of a very well made reproduction:

 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

On 9/14/2023 at 3:30 AM, Kiipu said:

A Chinese reproduction from around 25 years ago.

Agree

[vajo]

The chinese Fake sword was now sold for 1020 EUR 

[vajo]

Here it is. The same sword brand new 

https://www.egun.de/...item.php?id=19276080

 

 

 

[Lexvdjagt]

Is this real or fake? I am personally a bit confused by the paint.

[Kiipu]

Sorry Lex, it is a reproduction.

[Lexvdjagt]

@Kiipu what brings you to that conclusion?

[John C]

1 hour ago, Lexvdjagt said:

what brings you to that conclusion

Lex:

I'll chime in here. Just from those pics, the obvious signs are:

1) the bo-hi is tapered at the end (like using a grinder) rather than cut straight down. 

2) The bend of scabbard latch is exaggerated (real ones are straighter).

3) The sarute is too long, which is typical on fakes

Hope this helps,

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

Agreed.  This maker/faker likes the 30,000 numbers for some reason.  When I see one of those numbers, I automatically start looking for other clues.  Pictures of the stamps would help confirm.  I bet it's an Ijima.

[robinalexander]

Same old, same old....I can't help myself.

 

So I took the time to explain to this auction house that this was not a rare copper but a Chinese repro (and a bad one) and suggested they could refer it to a specialist.... after their first response which was ....

 

Hello Rob, We have consulted several specialist in the field and they all confirmed the sword was authentic. Best regards

 

I then told them that 'coppers' blade numbers finished in the mid 6000's but, no response....it's off to the auction it seems 

 

I really need to learn to just 'let it go'

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Yeah, I've gotten to where I almost never even look anymore.  Even the ebay sellers, if they answer at all, don't want to know the truth.  It would require they sell it as a repro at drastically reduced price.

[John C]

7 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Even the ebay sellers, if they answer at all, don't want to know the truth.

Been there. The guy who sold me the souvenir swore it was just a late war kai gunto using left over parts. I knew what I was buying so it didn't matter - this time. But what if someone didn't know.

Everyday there are standard soldier's tanto being sold as "kamikaze suicide" knives when the sellers know full well that isn't correct. Just buzz words to catch different searches. 

 

John C.

[robinalexander]

The rare first type NCO sword ( 'copper' not!) mentioned above sold at au tion for $850 USD which indicates to me it was purchased by someone, likely a newbie, who thought they were getting a bargain.  This will be a quick and painful lesson.

 

I'm disgusted yet again by the behaviour of the auction house (Sofa Design Auctions Richardson, TX, US) in engaging with 'specialists' who appear to lack even fundamental knowledge of the subject.

 

Note : The views expressed above are the personal opinions of the poster and are not necessarily the views of NMB members or moderators.

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, John C said:

Just buzz words to catch different searches. 

For many decades, no one knew any better.  Can't blame them.  Today, as a professional seller, with access to all the latest data, there really is no excuse.

[charliefoo33]

From what I've been told, this one is fake. Let me know what you think.

[John C]

14 minutes ago, charliefoo33 said:

Let me know what you think.

Based on the first pic, I believe you are correct.

1) the munemachi and hamachi do not line up, typical of fakes

2) the habaki is numbered, also typical of fakes

3) sarute looks too long = fake

 

John C.

[charliefoo33]

From end to end its 42 in. And it's heavy for a sword of its size. Hopefully this helps people avoid others in the future. Tyvm for your time.

[Bruce Pennington]

Another Polish reproduction/fake on this Wehrmact-awards Thread.  Standard errors like bohi too wide, beginning and ending all wrong.  Bend in locking latch.  Ijima stamp and usual 30-50000 serial number range.

 

 

[John C]

Interestingly, the punch they used to make the dimples was hollow - like a nail set punch.

 

John C.

[vajo]

This will become a very expensive learning lesson for someone who wins the auction 

 

The seller write in the description:

 

"Selling as an estate, a very nice Japanese sword with scabbard, really a very nice piece. Everything else can be seen in the photos, and if you have any questions please write to us. Sword and scabbard match numbers, sits firmly and tightly in the scabbard - just as it should be. Sword with full metal handle, slightly curved bare blade, grooved on both sides. The scabbard is made of metal with an olive green finish and is not dented. Blade length approx. 67.5cm. Total length with sheath approx. 97.5cm. Various stamps/signs available, see photo. Private sale no guarantee or return, please only bid if you agree. " 

 

 

 

 

[IanS]

Good afternoon,  I joined the forum yesterday mainly because I often got "referred" here when I did Google searches on Japanese swords.  I never ceased to be in awe of the wealth of knowledge, so here I am to hopefully gain some of it.  I apologise for introducing myself here, I lost the section of the forum where I should have done this.

 

Having read your posts on this thread, I thought I would bring to your notice a type 95 for sale at auction, I'm satisfied that my conclusion is correct in that it is a fake, but I'd love to hear your views.  I have put the web address below as I'm not sure about putting up the auction house photos in case of copyright problems.

 

https://www.the-sale...cc-a26a-b0a801264bff

 

Best wishes,

Ian.

[Kiipu]

Hi Ian, it is a Chinese reproduction as you state.  Just look at the position of the scabbard hanger compared to a real Type 95.

[John C]

2 hours ago, IanS said:

I'd love to hear your views

Ian:

Another tip-off. Note the style of numbering is in the wrong font. Also, the bo-hi has been clearly made by a grinder and isn't long enough.

 

John C.

[Conway S]

The serial number should also be between the bohi (blade fuller) and mune (spine) of the blade. The tsuka (handle) is poorly cast with very little detail and there is no habaki (blade collar). 

 

Conway