Fake Type 95 Nco Swords

[zook]

Good intuition Chris .

.. so if you collect Japanese firearms you are familiar with the Tokyo arsenal stamps on the Nambu's.  

A good tokyo arsenal stamp is similar in appearance on an NCO sword.  If you do a comparison to this arsenal stamp,  the difference kind of jumps out (to me, anyway :).   ... as a starting point.   The numerical fonts are also off the mark. Dan 

[BANGBANGSAN]

Another Polish repro in 30K range on the Fleabay 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255380506381?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201018205123%26meid%3Dca6ed9c2fff74507bffc237599a9b64e%26pid%3D101286%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26mehot%3Dnone%26itm%3D255380506381%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DWatchlistVariantWithMLR&_trksid=p2380057.c101286.m47999&_trkparms=pageci%3A584cb1a0-8b48-11ec-8647-96526d6cc5af|parentrq%3Ae9390e5817e0a9f73695d718ffff4620|iid%3A1 

 

[BANGBANGSAN]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255382009278?hash=item3b75f435be:g:-qsAAOSwdiVh7HS5

Still have 4 days to end the auction, and already over $700, the people bidding on it need to check this thread.

[Shamsy]

I actually think that sword is genuine. The saya paint is disproportionately preserved compared with the handle, which doesn't really matter as it has signs of old wear, just not in the usual hand area (just below the suspension ring). I can't see any of the usual Polish issues.

 

I suspect the main reason you are thinking this a repro is the bohi shape. The bohi does vary in depth and width, and the termination points, while typically a rounded scoop, can also be that narrowing 'flicked slope' look. Iijima also had the greatest variation in quality of all the subcontractors (IMHO).

 

What I'm getting at is you need to consider the sword as a whole. To me, the patina looks good on the fittings and painted areas, colours are good, serial range is good, no issues with the sarute, fuchi stamps are good and deep on a brass coated steel, great habaki fit ... looks good to me.

 

One last thing I'll add. There is a certain... I don't know... feeling? Intuition? When you see a lot of 95s you just kind of subconsciously pick the fakes. It's a bit weird and airy-fairy I know, but this sword looks fine to me. Happy to hear otherwise if I've missed anything. 

[Kiipu]

Seems these have come up before.  Below is a link to 35926, close to 35914 that Trystan mentioned.

Type95 Looks Real But I'm Not Sure

[BANGBANGSAN]

3 hours ago, Shamsy said:

 

I suspect the main reason you are thinking this a repro is the bohi shape. 

 

Steve

Besides the Bohi， the shape of scabbard drag and the quality of scabbard throat is also got my concern for fairly early 30K Series, it should be better made? And the Ser# is a little small in size and has too much space between numbers.
Those are just my thoughts, I could be wrong. But if it's a repro, then it's a really good one.

[BANGBANGSAN]

5 minutes ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

Steve

Besides the Bohi， the shape of scabbard drag and the quality of scabbard throat is also got my concern for fairly early 30K Series, it should be better made? And the Ser# is a little small in size and has too much space between numbers.
Those are just my thoughts, I could be wrong. But if it's a repro, then it's a really good one.

The Paint on this sword looks very convincing though.

 

[zook]

Gents ... I know, I know ...I've been off in German dagger land for a while, but still stick around to learn and follow trends :).   On this particular sword,  if it's a fake - it's pretty darn good (my humble opinion) ... but, Tristan & Steve -  what are your thoughts on the Kokura stamp?     Does it seem solid to you?    Regards, Dan 

[vajo]

7 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Seems these have come up before.  Below is a link to 35926, close to 35914 that Trystan mentioned.

Type95 Looks Real But I'm Not 

 

I cant remember on this sword but last year i bought one of these 35xxx numbers and could give it back after PM discussion. Its allways that 35xxx.

A well known US Nihontodealer had sold one with a similar look an 40xxx number. Same style. I don't know if its real or not.

 

Haha maybe we had here the next PX wartime trophy issue 😀 like the kai gunto?

[BANGBANGSAN]

The more I look and compare to the other one more I am towards Steve's opinions, it's legit. These 35xxx are tricky.

[vajo]

He made a new listing with new pictures. The sword looks really not bad. I like the gold/ yellow coloring of the menuki. That replica from poland and other replicas didn't have that. I'm on the side it is a real one too. But i`m personaly would not jump in based on my opinion 

I'm not 100% convinced.

[vajo]

The next one...

Samurai Schwert - Katana für Unteroffiziere - eGun

 

 

[vajo]

And another.... 

But he wrotes - Replica and the price is over 370 EUR now...

Katana Schwert Typ 95 NCO „Shin Gunto“ für Unteroffiziere - eGun

 

[vajo]

I think they are all from the same company. The seppa looks all similar and you didn't find that on a origianl sword.

 

WWII Japanese Type 95 NCO Gunto Katana Sword By Tokyo Arsenal Matching Serial #  See original listing
	Condition: Used
	Ended: Feb 20, 2022 , 2:30AM
	Winning bid: US $1,025.00 [ 34 bids ]

 

 

Original type 95 seppa

 

[Shamsy]

Two more examples of Polish Replica. Seem to be a lot of these popping up. They used to be quite rare. To me the colour is probably the most distinct thing with these, followed by bohi, sarute, stampings and the fuchi.

 

I stand by my opinion that the sword Trystan posted is original though. To me, it looks completely different to the Polish swords.

[Kiipu]

Shamsy, when you have a few spare Yen, can you order one for my birthday!  I always wanted a real Type 95 from Japan.

レプリカ 九五式軍刀 日本軍 下士官 サバゲー昭五式 九八式

 

Spoiler

日本軍下士官用の九五式軍刀のレプリカです。
刃は模造刀身が入ってます。

A replica of the Type 95 Gunto for Japanese non-commissioned officers. The blade contains an imitation blade.

 

[vajo]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:51 PM, vajo said:

And another.... 

But he wrotes - Replica and the price is over 370 EUR now...

 

 

 

 

Katana Schwert Typ 95 NCO „Shin Gunto“ für Unteroffiziere - eGun

 

 

Sold for 442,13 EUR ~ $496 US

Crazy and unbelivable. And the offer says it could be replica.

[WillFalstaff]

Totally new to ID-ing 95’s, but I have trouble with the termination of the hi (is it called a hi on a 95? Groove? Or fuller?) at the guard on Trystan’s Feb 11 post. Enough where it would make me step away from the buy. The stamps look a bit off too. Maybe it’s the spacing or the depth of the stamps, or that they don’t look “thick”. I think it is either a really well made replica, or a frankensword made w/real parts, or . . . 1% or 2% chance it’s real. 

[Shamsy]

The groove down the blade that you are referring to is called the bohi. Or fuller. Or blood groove.

 

I believe hi is the cutting edge.

 

If you have a 95 you'd like to buy then post it in on the forum and we will happily give you advice around how much it would be worth, how original it is, issues etc.

[Brian]

Hi is the groove. Bo-hi is the wider groove like this one. Soe-hi, the thinner one that is occasionally present on older swords under the bohi. You were thinking of the ha :-)

[Shamsy]

I thought it would be a good idea to post a few old pictures of mine where I highlighted the considerable differences between Type 95 swords. The original thread is gone and buried somewhere and this seems a natural place to re-post, since it is an educational thread intended to assist newer members of the community. Small differences may appear to a novice to be a tell-tale sign of a 'fake', but it is important to consider the sword as an overall before passing any judgement. There may be several 'issues' with a sword, but that sword will still be entirely genuine. There may be no obvious or apparent issues, but the sword may be a well made reproduction and aged into a fake. There is an overall 'feeling' to swords that I have previously mentioned which I can't really explain. It is just something that you get with experience and exposure to a large number of swords.

 

The components of 95s were made by several subcontractors, so expect there to be differences there. Quality varies throughout production and subcontractor, so expect differences there (none more so than Iijima). Materials used in construction changed, so expect differences there. I'm sure was turn-over of workers and some degree of the process was manual, so expect differences there. Stamps changed so expect differences there (there are several distinctly different Kokura 'cannonball' stamps). Colours/shades used in paint changed, so expect differences there. Swords were refurbished, so expect changes there. My point being that there is no perfect checklist to identify a fake so you must be very aware of that before you start to label a sword, especially when it is a sale that a stray comment could derail.

 

Sword components from various subcontractors are not universally interchangeable and it absolutely is possible to tell when a sword used mismatched components. Stegel often points this out, not just because of his extensive records, but because of his extensive experience. I can pick Polish replicas because of experience, not because of some inherent design flaw.

 

The attached photos should be a reasonable demonstration of some of these differences. The main observations I'd like to point out are;

• Bohi depth, width and termination vary considerably
• Blade serial numbers vary considerably in font, uniformity, depth and location
• Quality of the cast tsuka varies considerably, as does the design
• Colours vary considerably
• Kissaki vary in size, definition and pitch

 

We could get into greater detail, but that would result in a huge post and that is not the intent. This is also not intended to be a chastisement or to discourage attempts at authentication, but an encouragement to be thoughtful in appraisal and consider a sword as a whole, while keeping in mind the many nuances of the Type 95.

 

 

[WillFalstaff]

This is a great addition, Sham. I’ll add to my cheat sheet (w/attribution of course). 

Though I’m not looking for 95s (or 98s) I’m bound to bump into some and want to be sure I’m evaluating them correctly “if” I do decide to buy one.

And if I can, I will post here before making a move. 

[robinalexander]

The 'right up' (auction house in Rome GA USA) on this particular fake is a little scary.

 

Looks like one bidder has committed $810 US.....boy are they going to be disappointed!

 

"An excellent example of a World War II Type 95 Japanese Army NCO sword that was obviously carried in the field of combat operations."

World War II Japanese NCO Katana Shin-Gunto Sword (#0384) on Mar 27, 2022 | Connoisseur Auctions in GA (liveauctioneers.com)

[zook]

Hey Rob - now this one looks crappy (Fuchi, handle, etc...) to me,  not the quality fake in my eyes, compared to the more recent posts.  

[robinalexander]

Yeah Dan i just find it difficult to believe that an auction house would say what they are saying 

[Shamsy]

These swords have been around for a long time, but I have yet to post a good example here, which is quite an oversight.

 

These are not quite as good as the Polish swords, but these Indian reproductions are pretty darn close! Far, far superior to every Chinese copy. Sadly, it looks as though these are Iijima again, so there is a real mine-field with these swords now. Remember also that Iijima (IMHO) have the biggest variance in swords over their production, so always consider the whole sword and ask if in doubt.

 

The main things that make this pop out to me are the oversized sarute, the extended and bent locking latch and the very bright and distinct tsuka screw. The bohi is also quite bad, maybe enough to stand out even amongst the great variety of bohi designs across 95s. Paint is also that not-quite-right shade, though not as dark as the Polish swords.

 

I'll include some comments from a review on the site, since I don't have an example myself and they may be helpful:

"The sword arrived with no rattles or visible damage, feels hefty and sturdy in hand with reasonable balance. Has gradual distal taper in the blade. Brass fittings are all fresh and shining. The aluminum handle feels surprisingly not that bad for what it is. Its overal shape from the first glance is rather pleasing.
However, the sword tip is very ugly and do not match most of the photos of the WWII relic I could find. It resembles more of a sabre style tip without a pronounced kissaki. The shinogi line, if there was one, is flat and rounded, blended into the surface of the blade, makes it less aesthetically pleasing. Also, with a closer look, the paint on the saya was poorly applied, mine even comes with rust bubbles. What ever paint they used on the tsuka was of poor quality, and peels off easily even from just hand rubbing."

 

Here are some photos from the only site I know that sells these (not that I go browsing for repro 95s). The site sells them for what they are, great repros. They only become 'fake' when misrepresented by another individual (usually along with an artificial patina).

 

 

[Shamsy]

On 2/25/2022 at 8:59 AM, Shamsy said:

Two more examples of Polish Replica. Seem to be a lot of these popping up. They used to be quite rare. To me the colour is probably the most distinct thing with these, followed by bohi, sarute, stampings and the fuchi.

 

I stand by my opinion that the sword Trystan posted is original though. To me, it looks completely different to the Polish swords.

 

I'd like to amend this post. The first sword Chris posted 25/02 appears to be the Indian repro. The second Chris posts, also posted 25/02, is Polish. This is a great comparison, actually, and makes it really obvious that the Polish are just that step above the Indian examples in finer details.

 

[robinalexander]

This is a little scary.  Makes Polish and Indian fakes look like national treasures.

 

This is currently on Ebay.  I thought I would let the seller know its fake so he can do the right thing. But he disputes my view and implies he put a lot of effort into buying this and even more into selling it, to ensure it is real 

 

He wants me to explain exactly why its not genuine.....you know what, I just couldnt be bothered! 

 

Hopefully the current bidders arent going any higher.

 

 

[Shamsy]

Well it is 100% genuine, original Chinese! Don't waste your time trying to tell them. Most of the sellers of these on eBay think they know better or already know it is not genuine and want to sell it so they can pass on their mistake or make an unscrupulous buck.

[robinalexander]

20 bidders have taken it to US $304.99 just this morning with 4 days to go