Saotome Tsuba

[Spartancrest]

Thanks for all that information, I did think the antler one was very modern. Would it have been given as some sort of present perhaps? I have seen another one recently on a site in America and corresponded with its owner who gave me permission to use the image, it looks like a stripped down version that was less well cared for. What do you think ?

The not Sanmai (some references give different spellings, but I stand corrected) was not actually cast, it is difficult to see in the pictures but it is constructed with thin twists of metal that are folded over almost like crumpled paper with a lot of solder, the iron section does not quiet line up with the hitsu so that would certainly fit with the keyhole idea. Thanks also Ford for the information on the maybe Saotome it was fairly cheap and I had no great expectations for it. Actually it is still in Japan so I have no idea what it will eventually turn out to be, for all I know at present it may turn out to be a cast iron trivet, I only posted it in reference to the size of Saotome type Tsuba as that is what it purported to be when I bought it.

The other picture is a new one I bought recently, the subject matter is pretty ordinary but I do like the nibbled biscuit look of the shape!

Thanks again.

Dale.

[ROKUJURO]

Dale,

thanks again for sharing your TSUBA! Quite unusual pieces!

Concerning your TSUBA in SAOTOME design, I do not think it is cast because the corrosion would be different. Of course, this is just my guess without having it in hand.

TSUBA have always been made outside of the 'official' schools by amateurs, even in Japanese history, so there is a chance that someone was fascinated by the traditional SAOTOME design and made a less refined copy. It certainly has its history which we will never know! 

[MauroP]

When it comes to judge art (and  tsuba as well) nothing can be taken for granted. Here in the picture below I have collected some examples of plain kikka-gata sukashi tsuba; on the left 4 tsuba papered as Saotome, on the right tsuba attributed to Heianjō, Kyō-sukashi (2) and Myōchin.

Bye, Mauro

[ROKUJURO]

Mauro,

thank you for that useful comparison!

[Spartancrest]

Mauro and Jean

 

As for comparing TSUBA and trying to determine their lineage, I am always grateful to that great early collector Bashford Dean- his quote

 

 "Let him but try to classify these tsuba before him, and he will find how complicated is his task. Most of us would not attempt it, but he who is thoughtful will long be haunted by the problem which he cannot solve: try as he may to distinguish clearly the groups of sword guards, he will ever find that his criteria "interlock" inextricably. Thus he may try in vain to classify his guards according to their material, whether finished or roughened, whether perforated or plain, whether smooth, encrusted, or inlaid; or according to subjects; or, if he follows his task more thoroughly, even according to the "schools" of the artists who created them."
 The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin.
Vol. 16, No. 7 Author: Bashford Dean 1921

 

This  allows me to sleep at night when I can't assign a particular piece !  
 

[Alan Morton]

Hi guys,

how come Barrie's original topic and very legitimate question has 

gone so far away from it, can't it be answered? I thought a very interesting subject.

Alan

[Toryu2020]

Remember the Tokugawa edicts were not for application in the countryside, the far north or Kyushu for example. They were mainly for Edo and mainly for persons in attendance at court. If you were on duty at Edo you wouldnt show up with a 10 cm tsuba but you might wear it back home in Kagoshima...

-t

[Barrie B]

Thomas,

 

I hadn't thought of that; I guess I naively thought that the laws would be adhered to all over the country, but your explanation makes perfect sense..

 

Thanks.

 

Barrie.

[rkg]

On a lark I just acquired one of these:

https://www.facebook.com/Kod%C3%B4gu-no-Sekai-%E5%B0%8F%E9%81%93%E5%85%B7%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C-266005023454853/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1061310870590927

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)