Bizen Kanemitsu, Which One ?

[Jim P]

Hi Guys, This sword is out of polish and O-suriage but you can see bits of gonome-midare and choji-midare in the hamon the sayagaki says  Bishu Osafune ju Kanemitsu so if its a bizen Kanemitsu, which one ? thoughts ? also remember reading that if the gonome-midare hamon straitens out in the top part of the blade its a later smith ?

[lonely panet]

Jim,

with such poor photos, how could even the most educated person comment. Help us to help yourself, take some time. It may take 40 mins but you could capture some important activity in the Jigane, Hamon or kissaki  that might help put the sword into the correct school and period.

 

regards H

[Jean]

Who wrote the sayagaki? Is it reliable? Yes, the hamon, in some place, seems to be a bit like O Kanemitsu's ones but that's all. Fuzzy pictures of an out of polish blade.

 

Concerning sayagaki, they are only an opinion written on a shirasaya which can be overcome by Shinsa, several Kanzan Sato's sayagaki have already been challenged by Shinsa, so be wary...

[Jim P]

Hi Hamfish, The sword is out of polish that's why the pics are not good even if he takes some more time (40m) it would not help much its not my sword but was asked to look at it so trying to work out if the sword is worth a window being done. Now *how could even the most educated person comment.) Well I think we can comment on shape, period, does it look like a bizen blade ? hamon, well what we see of it.

 

Hi Jean, I am not saying that's its by Kanemitsu, I don't know who the smith is, that's why I said If ? and as for sayagaki I also don't know if its reliable ? but it has a good chance that its bizen and that is a good starting point. My thoughts so far are its a mid 1500s sword but it could be a bit older ? But I will try to get some better pics of what I can 

[paulb]

Hi Jim,

I doubt this will help too much but below is an image of a blade I had a very long time ago. It had a sayagaki claiming it was by Kagemitsu. The blade also had very clear midare utsuri. It was a very good looking thing. However I had doubts regarding it's age. When it went to the NTHK for shinsa they said it was either shin-shinto or possibly even gendaito.

[Stephen]

Which NTHK? Paul

[paulb]

The original one

[Stephen]

PM sent sir 

[Jim P]

Hi Paul, I think there must be a few of them (sayagaki claiming its Kanemitsu) Now if that blade can get by you then the rest of us do not have much chance.

I think that its old and bizen from what I saw but as you say it may well be shin-shinto or even gendaito   I will take some better Pics if I can and see if that helps   

[paulb]

Thank you for the kind comment, I wish it were true, I have got it wrong far more times than I care to remember. When I bought this I had little doubt that it wasnt what it claimed to be, my guess was it was a later copy (I thought possibly shin-shinto) but I really did like it. the shape the utsuri and all else was realy enjoyable. My first thought was Sokan who did great Bizen copies.

I am not saying the NTHK were right or wrong although their opinion is worth more than mine but I am reasonably sure it wasnt what the sayagaki claimed.

This all happedned a long while ago and the sword is with a different owner who continues to enjoy it. Just seeing your images just reminded me of it and i thought the comparison might be of use.

good luck

[Jean]

All I can say is that it is Bizen style. Now, I have seen shin shinto blades made at "la manière de" in Bizen and Soshu style quite convincing but not the same quality.

[Jim P]

Hi Paul, At least you had an idea that it was probably Shin-Shinto. I would be surprised if this one ended up Shin-Shinto but as you know I am not great at kantei .

Hi Jean, Thanks for your thoughts, I decided to have a second look as I saw that someone thought enough of the blade to put a gold habaki on it.
also in its past someone also thought enough of it to get a bohi cut after it was shortened

[Darcy]

Maybe a bit too curved, a bit too tapering, a bit too small a kissaki to feel confident in it going to Kanemitsu. But it's hard to argue with someone who saw the blade in polish and not blurry and wrote a sayagaki. 

 

It looks like a promising blade and should be sent to someone who knows what they're doing to have a close look. 

 

No two are ever identical but you can compare to mine for what I'm talking about. 

 

http://nihonto.ca/kanemitsu/

[Jim P]

Hi Darcy, Thanks for taking the time to reply, I did look at the one on your site before posting and there is some similarity in the hamon and the ji-gane looks bizen ( what I can see of it ) The sword is a bit more tired than the one on your site so some of the things you mention may be because of that so will try and get someone to look at it and in the meantime see if I can get some more detailed pics the chances are its not by him but still a interesting blade   

[Darcy]

Also whenever an organization tells you your thing is way wrong, remember that Juyo Enju blade I posted where the owner was told his mei was bad by the hedge experts he trusted so he sawed it off. Then it ends up in the Juyo with the mei unattached from the blade. Then it goes Tokuju with the mei as gakumei.

 

THE BLIND LEAD THE BLIND 

 

All that it takes is that you buy into their profound sense of the depth of their own expertise and let that make some decisions for you. You bear the consequences not them. So here's a guy who does a suriage to cut a mei off, finds out it actually is fine, and that he cut up a sword that still passes Tokuju in spite of him cutting it up.

 

Remember that when the NTHK tells you blah blah blah. Remember that when the NBTHK rejects a blade. Or when you look at a really old paper that doesn't seem to make sense. Never abandon that you know a little something but it all has to weigh relatively. Just make sure to count them as opinions, informed opinions, and weigh them and keep collecting data as long as you suspect there may be something more to it. The negs, nod, and take it down as a vote against. The positive, nod and take as a vote for.

 

I posted a legitimate Nosada to this board and 100% of people told me it was gimei and I thought about having the mei removed. I submitted and it went Tokubetsu Hozon and another member here now has it. But I came close to saying why bother, how could I be so wrong? But hey, I was right all along. 

 

All those opinions are useful but just keep remembering they are opinions as long as you have some kind of proper ground on which to rest your own argument. 

 

No time travel, definitely no zombies or raising the dead. No aliens. None of these can be used in your arguments. And if someone lays down a block, X can't be Y because Z, you have to admit it and find a path around that blocked channel. If not then you admit defeat and learn.

 

But just remember because a bunch of guys say something doesn't make it true.