tosho ?

[Bungo]

7.5 x 7.2 x app. 0.175 cm

layered construction.

I think this is early Momoyama or Muramachi

 

note the BIG koz hole.........

 

Leaning towards Tosho but thinking it could be ko-Shoami, ko-Umetada.

May be Saotome , myochin ????

 

 

opinion needed.

 

milt the flying ronin

[Bungo]

second pic........ see the sparkling reflection on the ji ? Can we describe that as " nie " ? :D :lol:

 

milt the flying ronin

[Rich T]

Nioi to your Nie :-)

 

Here's a tip I picked up in Japan. Old iron tsuba with no rims in the Katch or Tosho class are generally classified by the following.

 

When there is no raised rim (打返耳 Uchikaeshi-mimi) or the likes with small or Ko sukashi then it is classified as TOSHO. But when there is no raised rim and there is large sukashi, then it is classified as KATCHUSHI.

 

It's a bit hard to judge the age from your excellent (read lousy) images matey hahahahahaha though I suspect they are the auction site images. I have a gut feeling this is an Edo copy though I am unsure why I have that feeling. Maybe it's the side on shot that shows the lack of any hammer work (Tsuchime). It's a bit small for a regular Katchu or Tosho unless early Muromachi. They both tended to be big, as in high 8 cm's and up. It is nice and thin though which is a bonus. Also, the sukashi crowds the mimi a bit, maybe it has been reduced ? Old Tosho and Katchu do have small bones in the mimi a lot of the time so there may be a clue there.

 

Just some early morning ramblings.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Bungo]

" Maybe it's the side on shot that shows the lack of any hammer work (Tsuchime) "

 

there is tsuchime ( umm, learn a new word today ).

No, these pics are taken by me, you don't see the dirty white carpet because it confuses the camera, so I place a white sheet of paper under the plastic stand. :lol:

 

milt the flying ronin

[Rich T]

" there is tsuchime ( umm, learn a new word today ).

 

Here, have the kanji as well. 槌目 Tsuchime) 地 (Ji)

 

I am still having trouble seeing it, as it is usually (in most cases) strong hammer work visible on the surface of the plate. Here are some examples from around the web.

 

Rich

 

Courtesy of Jim Gilbert

 

 

 

Courtesy of Me

 

 

[Bungo]

more pics

[Rich T]

thats looks better. So that is a better sign for an older guard.

 

Richard

[Bungo]

I am not sure it's tosho but quite sure it's before Edo ( well, may be not as old as Muramachi, but hey, hope springs eternal ).

 

may be ko-shoami ?

 

milt the flying ronin

[Rich T]

I would not have thought Shomai, maybe Katchushi though.

 

Rich

[Steve Waszak]

Hi Milt,

 

An interesting piece to kantei... It presents several "conflicting" traits (at least according to notions of what constitutes a classic representation of a particular school or tradition). On one hand, the thinness of the tsuba suggests early Muromachi (maybe mid-Muromachi) katcchushi; on the other, the small dimensions and lack of raised mimi of any kind point away from this attribution. The profuse ko-sukashi, again, seems to indicate katcchushi, but perhaps of a later time than the thinness suggests (maybe late Muromachi to Momoyama). The hitsuana is a sticking point for me---too self-conscious and "artistic" for early-to-mid-Muromachi, or for early work of any kind that I know of. This feature would lead me to think late Momoyama or Edo... The tsuchime is suggestive of tosho or katcchushi work, but as you note, Milt, ko-Shoami also give evidence of this sort of tsuchime.

 

I have a bit of a hard time seeing a tsuba of this size on the larger, two-handed katana of the late Momoyama and early Edo period. Too small, too thin, and too light (especially with all that material cut out). All considered, my humble guess would be a late Muromachi tsuba, perhaps meant for use with a katate-uchi katana. Though the hitsuana size and shape doesn't fit classically speaking, all else does, I think, at least to some degree...

 

I'd enjoy reading other thoughts on this tsuba, too. Thanks for presenting it for us to consider, Milt...

 

Steve Waszak

[Rich T]

I found a page in the book Shin Katch Shi Meikan

 

Here it is displaying a Saotome tsuba, which may be on a better track

 

 

Looks interesting.

 

Richard

[Bungo]

I bought it for the " pattern/design ", the large koz-ana fits in well with the rest of the gourds , balance it well with the other side and almost seems to be part of the integral design.

Now that you guys mentioned it, it could be Katchushi.

Rich, is that catalog you sent us from Japan ( forgetting the shipping fee )called Sano museum catalog ?

There's a few Katchushi tsuba with sukashi, page 10, 11

 

also on another thread about kiku tsuba ( my example is called spokes.jpg ), I showed a Saotome example...............in the same catalog, p.13, they called it Katchushi too !!

 

milt the flying ronin

[Markus]

BTW: This motif is called "mubyô" (六瓢・無病), a Japanese wordplay

for "no illness" (mubyô, 無病) which is represented through "six

gourds "(also mubyô, 六瓢).

[Steve Waszak]

I must have been more tired than I thought last night when I first posted to this thread... Now, in the light of day, looking at how close the sukashi are to the mimi, it seems quite likely that the tsuba has been cut down (thus eliminating any raised rim the tsuba might have had...). While the "mystery" of the hitsuana remains (for me), the small size and lack of raised rim no longer cast doubt on a Katccushi attribution, I think...

 

Rich's thoughts on Saotome are good, too, though I'm not sure I've seen any with such wall-to-wall sukashi as this piece shows.

 

Interesting info on the theme of the six gourds...

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[Bungo]

is that catalog you sent us from Japan ( forgetting the shipping fee )called Sano museum catalog ?

There's a few Katchushi tsuba with sukashi, page 10, 11

 

also on another thread about kiku tsuba ( my example is called spokes.jpg ), I showed a Saotome example...............in the same catalog, p.13, they called it Katchushi too !!

 

milt the flying ronin

 

The Sukagawa City Museum Catalogue

 

That's the proper name.

 

milt the flying ronin

[Rich T]

I came across this at Andy Quirts site.

 

http://www.nihonto.us/KATCHUSHI%20MUSHROOM%20TSUBA.htm

 

Similar busyness.

 

Richard

 

[Bungo]

big size.........

 

mine must had been made for a small dude

 

milt the flying ronin