New (old?) sword

[Kid Silk]

Hi everyone. Does anybody know anything about the Imperial Japanese Army Officers Head Quarters in Zama, Japan? I have an interesting item that was brought back in 1945 and have just starting researching it.

The sword looks "used", as in there are small chips on the business end of the sword. It appears as if it needs a polish. All of the information I have read indicates that it is not machine made. Anyone with knowledge wanna help?

[Brian]

Hi,

 

Please sign all posts with a name and initial as per the rules, thanks.

I guess we are going to need decent pics to assist, but how does this HQ tie in with the sword? Post some pics and I'm sure we will be glad to assist where possible. Sounds like there is a story behind it?

 

Brian

[Kid Silk]

Hi,

 

I will post some pics in a few hours when they are taken by a friend. The HQ ties in because that is where it was acquired (as well as a second sword). That's all i know now, but I am going to try finding out more details over the holidays. Thanks for the fast reply!

 

Derek F.

[Kid Silk]

Here are some pics.

[Kid Silk]

DereK F

[Kid Silk]

Derek F

[Kid Silk]

Derek F

[Ronin 47]

I think it's signed

shi

mada

ju

kuni

hisa

 

But I'm not sure about the first two kanji. Judging from the shape it looks like it might be from the Muromachi period. Hope that helps.

Austin

[Ichi]

It looks Takada 高田　to me.

[sencho]

縞田任国久

 

the SHIMADA version.... maybe this... with handwriting difference on the first kanji

 

高田任国久

 

TAKADA version.... this one doesn't look right to me.... but as usual I could be way off

 

Cheers

[Kid Silk]

As you can see, it is not in the best shape and needs polishing. Any ideas on where i could have it looked at and see if it is worth the $$$ for a proper polish?

 

Derek F

[Nobody]

I think Erol is correct.

It looks "Takada ju Kunihisa" also to me.

 

髙田住国久

[sencho]

On further checking I think Errol is correct too.....

 

From Hawleys

 

KUNIHISA (KUN 249)

 

1573 BUNGO 15 points

 

signed both

 

BUNGO KUNI JU TAKATA JU KUNIHISA

and

TAKATA JU KUNIHISA

 

what are the dimensions of the sword, Derek?

 

cheers!

[Kid Silk]

Total length is 26.5". What are other standard measurements?

 

Derek F

[Kid Silk]

How can i find out if the blade is worthy of paying for a polish?

 

Derek F

[John A Stuart]

Bring it to a Japanese sword club, to a polisher or send to a polisher for his comments. Pick a reputable source for your comments, since of course you need to know when to cut your purse off, it's a business after all. John

[Brian]

Derek,

 

Whether to polish or not is up to you. Likely you would not get back what you put into it, but it would be for yourself, and not for the value.

Bungo swords (as Milt will tell you) are not the most sought after school, but they are still good swords that had good battle characteristics. It has age to it, and is genuine. You would have to get some quotes on restoration to see if it is affordable to you and worth it. Most times you don't recover the money you spent when you restored it if you sell later, but the pride of ownership and beauty you would see after a good job is worth far more

 

Brian

[Kid Silk]

Thanks Brian and everyone else with your help. I first saw this sword about 15-20 years ago and my grandparents have had it packed away ever since. It was given to me as a suprise gift and is now my favorite possession. I will have it inspected, and more than likely polished because i want to see it in its former state of glory. Thanks again for all of your help, I now start the journey of inspection and polishing. I'll post before/after pics if anyone wants to see them.

 

Derek F

[Bungo]

Bungo swords (as Milt will tell you) are not the most sought after school, but they are still good swords that had good battle characteristics. It has age to it, and is genuine.

Brian

 

there's nothing wrong with Bungo swords, they looks good have activities within the hamon......... my grip is only with the shinsa result, looks like if they can't make up their minds with a mumei swords, they call it Bungo.

So......... Bungo must be one of the LARGERST sword production centre in old Japan !! And........ the reason we have so many survived is because they are good swords, they don't break, unlike those " rare " ones like Hasabe, Rai etc.etc. ( with tongue in cheek )

 

milt the ronin

[Brian]

the reason we have so many survived is because they are good swords

You sure it isn't because they were so fragile that the Samurai were afraid they would break, and left them at home, rather taking their Rai/Hasebe etc sword into battle? :D :lol: :D

 

Kidding!

 

Brian

[John A Stuart]

Hi All, Once I had asked whats with Bungo. Like Milt says there are many around. That is proof that they were a serviceable sword. Takada school really seems to get the brush off. Similar to how Mino swords are treated sometimes. Check these Bungo swords. Magnificent, lovely suguba hamon. The sugata-wow!!! John

[John A Stuart]

Another Yukihira

[Bungo]

some old timer told me once.........

get a proper Japanese polish, the O-suriage Bizen look-a-like ( papered to ) Bungo will turn Bizen.

Something about the Bizen has " finer " hada which a slightly out of polish

( papered to ) Bungo won't show .

 

milt the flying ronin

[Kid Silk]

Is there anything else anyone can tell me about Bungo? What is a must have book(s) for the nihonto collector? I plan on collecting, and would like to buy good reference materials.

 

Derek F

[John A Stuart]

Hi Derek, Check out the top of the page 'Suggested Reading'. After you become familiar with the subject you will slowly develop your taste and then buy books more specific. As to why Bungo receive less respect, joking aside, it is that there are a lot of swords within that tradition that are of mediocre quality. That being said there are masterpieces and high quality swords found as well. See above. As well sometimes their subtle simplicity is underestimated, art and function. That is what I mean when I say Mino has the same opinion sometimes. Too many mass produced examples but when of high calibre truly something. It has a lot to do with the period the sword was made also, most traditions had their golden age with subsequent generations becoming shadows of their former glory. John

[Guest reinhard]

The sword-pictures by John A Stuart show masterpieces of old Bungo-tradition datable to early Kamakura-period (ca.1200 A.D.). Bungo Takada-school, to which your sword might belongs, was one of the mass-producing centres of sword-manufacture during Muromachi-period (15th/16th c.A.D.). Together with Osafune in Bizen, Seki in Mino, Dotanuki-school in Higo and some others, they supplied the vast armies of these times with pretty good weapons for a reasonable price. When having studied the subject for a while, you will have to make up your mind: Are you interested in superior weapons only or are you interested in qualities, that go beyond? Until then you better forget some of what you read in this thread. Comparing old Bungo-swords by Sadahide and Yukihira with Bungo Takada swords is like comparing "King Lear" with "Harry Potter" and then coming to the conclusion: "It's good because it's british."

reinhard

[Bungo]

yooooooo, I love Harry potter books !!

don't knock them till you read them !!

 

milt the flying ronin

[Guido]

yooooooo, I love Harry potter books !!

And if you give them a high class polish, err, I mean bind them in a nice leather cover, a Shinsa might think they're written by Charles Dickens ...

 

Other than that: add Shitahara to Reinhard's list.