Sashimono Acquisition

[md02geist]

Recently acquired this from a fellow NMB member, an interesting sashimono.

 

I've been unable to positively identify the Tsuta ("Ivy") mon within the eight sided shape, although I have found LOTS that are similar that have a different shape inside of the eight sided shape, or utilize the same ivy leaf without a border. Most of them reference to the Matsuidaira clan. I have no idea if this sashimono is related or not, nor can I positively identify the age.

 

The stitching seems to have been redone at some point, as the stitching seems far newer than the cloth itself. Just a guess however, I am far from an expert.

 

 

This originally came from one of the foremost experts in Japan on matchlocks, and a board member of the Japanese Armor study group. It was originally found in an old kura with several other old items including another sashimono. It passed hands once to a member of this board and then to me.

 

I know nothing at all about cloth so I really cannot identify the material, but it definitely seems old and thinned and as evidenced is fairly stained and worn.

The mon is certainly hand dyed as it is the cloth itself plus it is also imperfect with asymmetry and some less than perfect lines.

 

It was estimated to be Edo or older by the seller and previous owner.

 

Any input is appreciated! Please enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SteveM]

Try this one

http://www.benricho.org/kamon/database/jpg/115_Sa/146_Sumikiri/Sumikiri-007.jpg

隅切り角に蔦

 

Sumikiri kado ni tsuta

[md02geist]

Yes that's great! What clan or family is that do you know?

 

Unfortunately I cannot read Japanese past very very basic characters yet so the website is tough for me. I'll try to use google translate later.

[SteveM]

Did a bit of googling, but haven't found a lot. It seems to be the crest of a famous sumo wrestler in the 19th century, but haven't found anything else yet.

 

http://www.ippongi.com/2011/12/23/tsuta-2/

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F%E6%9C%88%E9%AF%A8%E5%A4%AA%E5%B7%A6%E8%A1%9B%E9%96%80

[md02geist]

That would be neat and make it around 175-200 years old if that's the case. Although admittedly I'm hoping it's more of a soldiers crest.

[SteveM]

Well I just threw that out there because it was the first one that came up in a Google search. It would be wrong to draw the conclusion that this mon is only for that clan or that it started there. Looking a bit more I found an entry in a book on Amazon that lists any of the following possibilities (plus a few more): Gotō, Tawara, Nagata, Nishide, Matsui

 

Note that the list isn't exhaustive (or exclusive). There are probably more families who use this mon. And the above names are not unusual names (well, Nishide is somewhat unusual), so there are many mon associated with these names. If you search for "mon of the Gotō" you will come up with many possibilities. Without knowing the specific provenance of this item, it would be hard to pin down. 

 

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=F1VdUz1RUosC&pg=RA4-PA66&lpg=RA4-PA66&dq=%E9%9A%85%E3%81%8D%E3%82%8A%E8%A7%92%E3%81%AB%E8%94%A6&source=bl&ots=LXiWPtIdTj&sig=KwbkaqZq6SKCfGQfcysd5D4lNQY&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_xbuyt93MAhUmxqYKHdSUBOcQ6AEIVzAO#v=onepage&q=%E9%9A%85%E3%81%8D%E3%82%8A%E8%A7%92%E3%81%AB%E8%94%A6&f=false

 

page 318

[Justin Grant]

I am not an expert by any means, but I wonder why the fabric is stained and faded, and with fold line bleaching but not on the mon its self. I have seen many for sale in the recent years where old asa fabric is used to make sashimono and chalky black paint is used to form the mon.

 

Accounting for the provenance, maybe it is old, but the black looks too new compared to the rest of the fabric. I base this on the one I own, and the one I bought that was a modern fake, and how my armor's fabric as a whole has aged in unison and not individually like this piece seems to have done.

 

As for the mon its self, as you know, in the late EDO, it as a fee for all on usage, so we would need to pin down age to a better period before you can assign heritage. Additionally, families were granted rights to mons, and not necessarily a family member, other branches modified the mon to show heritage and connection, but preserve their own identity. 

 

I'd ask the person you got it from to tell you where it was found and with what other identifiable items and maybe you can pin it down to a region and then work backwards on families in that area.

 

Again, it may be real, 100%, I'm just talking out loud.

[md02geist]

That is a trick of the light; the cloth is uniformly aged. I didn't take the picture with a direct overhead light. The "darker" lined areas are downward folds and the "lighter" lined areas are upwards folds.

[md02geist]

Still haven't found much on this and previous owner isn't really responding to queries.

[uwe]

Rob,

like Steve and Justin pointed out. Almost impossible to assign the mon to a certain family. Can't also find a match, but I think it's called "Sumikiri-kaku ni Tsuta".

[md02geist]

Thanks. Shame to think I'll never really know where it came from.

[Justin Grant]

Rob

 

It's listed in a book I have, but just the name, no attribution to a family.

[md02geist]

Rob

 

It's listed in a book I have, but just the name, no attribution to a family.

 

 

 

Well that's a shame. Thank you however for looking it up.

[IanB]

Rob,   I answered a similar thread on the Armour Forum about mon, so I thought I would respond to your quest in the same way. I have owned an armour for almost 50 years that gives a considerable amounts of information about it. On inscriptions inside the helmet, on the mask, on the sleeves and on the side of the dou it records that it was made by a Ki Yasukiyo living in Nagato province in 1847 and that he was a pupil of Myochin Muneyasu. It also states that it was made for a samurai / retainer of the Chohan called Nakagawa Mochinori. Now you would have thought with all that it would have been easy to find out more, but it was decades before I did. Yasukiyo was totally unrecorded in any literature I had access to as was Nakagawa Mochinori. The big break came when a diary of Myochin Muneyasu came to light which recorded that Yasukiyo was indeed a pupil who was 19 years old when he arrived at Muneyasu's workshop and that he studied for 3 years before returning to Nagato. Clearly he was already an armourer beforehand but had been sent to Edo to learn the latest styles and techniques. The armour is a very high quality and must have been expensive yet Nakagawa Mochinori, who must have been a person of some standing in the Han, remains a total mystery. The mon on the fukigayeshi of the helmet is of two dear antlers, but this is normally listed for the Kondo family not Nakagawa. On the textiles is the same mon plus another of a four petalled flower with sword blades between, all in a circle. This I assume is Nakagawa's secondary mon but again not listed for Nakagawa. As it happens, there is a vast body of literature about the Chohan, its politics, structure and its involvement in the overthrow of the Tokugawa, but nowhere can I find anything about Nakagawa Mochinori. I keep looking but it does show how difficult it is to track down the user of a particular mon. 

Ian Bottomley

[md02geist]

Wow yes that is quite a story! I see how difficult it could be.

[estcrh]

Recently acquired this from a fellow NMB member, an interesting sashimono.............................The stitching seems to have been redone at some point, as the stitching seems far newer than the cloth itself. Just a guess however, I am far from an expert. This originally came from one of the foremost experts in Japan on matchlocks, and a board member of the Japanese Armor study group. It was originally found in an old kura with several other old items including another sashimono. It passed hands once to a member of this board and then to me. I know nothing at all about cloth so I really cannot identify the material, but it definitely seems old and thinned and as evidenced is fairly stained and worn. The mon is certainly hand dyed as it is the cloth itself plus it is also imperfect with asymmetry and some less than perfect lines.

It was estimated to be Edo or older by the seller and previous owner. Any input is appreciated! Please enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the images provided this looks like a banner or wall hanging, unless the loops have been altered. A sashimono meant for wearing with armor would have a different type of loop configuration in order to stay in place on  the pole. Here is a sashimono designed for a single pole, you can see that the loop is closed at the top, the loops on yours are all open, it would just slide down a pole unless I am missing something.

 

[md02geist]

It's quite possible. However I'm not sure about the hangers; the thread used to stitch them looks much newer than the sashimono itself. I believe it probably underwent some repairs. I don't have any trouble however believing that it is 200ish years old based on the thickness of the threads etc.

[estcrh]

It's quite possible. However I'm not sure about the hangers; the thread used to stitch them looks much newer than the sashimono itself. I believe it probably underwent some repairs. I don't have any trouble however believing that it is 200ish years old based on the thickness of the threads etc.

 

 

It certainly was not meant to be hung this way as the mon would be off.

 

See were the blue arrow is pointing, you would expect the loop to be at the corner, unless there is or was a pocket were the red arrow is pointing or loops that were removed. Is there a pocket in that area, possibly sewn shut or signs of loops that were removed such as small holes were loops may have been sewn along that area?

[md02geist]

I know what you meant, thank you for the pictures though...I'll check it in the next few days and get back to you.

 

I would however expect that if it was simply meant to be hung from a wall that the hanging spots would be even. Notice how one side isn't flush against the side of the sashimono...that throws me off because I would think a wall hanger would be set up evenly with the hanging spots.

[estcrh]

I know what you meant, thank you for the pictures though...I'll check it in the next few days and get back to you.

 

I would however expect that if it was simply meant to be hung from a wall that the hanging spots would be even. Notice how one side isn't flush against the side of the sashimono...that throws me off because I would think a wall hanger would be set up evenly with the hanging spots.

That is exactly what I was pointing out, there is no reason that the loop on the right side is not at the end like the left side if it was originally just a banner.

[md02geist]

Yeah I'm just agreeing w/ you. I need to check it this week when I have some free time and clean hands lol.

[md02geist]

That whole right side (in pictures, side we were discussing) is one big pocket for a pole.

[md02geist]

So you could thread it directly onto a pole on the side

[estcrh]

That whole right side (in pictures, side we were discussing) is one big pocket for a pole

Can you post a picture showing the pocket?

[md02geist]

The entire right side is one large pocket. Not sure what you mean?

[estcrh]

The entire right side is one large pocket. Not sure what you mean?

Do you have a small pole or rod etc that you could slide into the pocket so it can be seen?

[md02geist]

Maybe, I'll look.

[DaveT]

Nice hata, you will need a pole that has a t-joint at the top.
Slide the pole up through the hem, then the top one through the loops.

If you don't have a pole they are easy to make, bamboo, copper pipe and some silver solder. 

[md02geist]

Don't have a dowel or anything that will work well but here are some more pics. You can clearly see the pocket plus where the pocket is sewn down the entire side.

[estcrh]

Don't have a dowel or anything that will work well but here are some more pics. You can clearly see the pocket plus where the pocket is sewn down the entire side.

I can see the pocket now, I think you made a good find.