Mutsu No Kami Kaneyasu Mid-Late 1600's

[Daso]

Hello All,  Although I've been saving up and trying to stick to most reliable sources I've been referred to, I saw a Fleabay - scared already - (supposedly) papers Katana by Mutsu No Kami Kaneyasu and find it attractive if I can get a reasonable price. Plain shirasaya.  I was really sacking up to try to reach the point for my first purchase to be an older Koto piece, but I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on this Smith and his reversed signature.  Thanks

[SteveM]

I saw the one I think you are talking about. Nice-looking sword. Great photographs. Some interesting hataraki. The sword is a bit scratched up near the habaki, and there is not a very clean shot of the boshi (which is a shame considering the detailed photographs of everything else). I don't know anything about the certificate that comes with this sword. It is not a standard NBTHK or NTHK paper, so it should be considered to have negligible value. In any event, it adds nothing to the sword.

 

Kind of an undistinguished smith during the somewhat problematic kanbun era. Problematic only because collectors and aficionados tend to find the kanbun swords to be uninteresting, and therefore kanbun swords are out of favor. This is a generalization of course. Inoue Shinkai was from the kanbun era, and his swords are beautiful, pricey, and very much sought after. The Kaneyasu on ebay... not so much.

 

Stay the course and continue saving up for a koto sword of some distinction. Resist the urge to spend good money on an cheap ebay sword. 

[Ken-Hawaii]

What's interesting is that both Hitendo & Koushya have blades by that smith on sale at the same time. Hitendo's has NBTHK origami, & the other paper may be by Hakusui.

 

Ken

 

[Daso]

Thanks all, I'm resisting the urge and will continue to save. This might sound like one of the dumbest questions asked on this board (almost scared to ask) and understanding that condition and papers play a large part, are there some good smiths from the koto muromachi period that one with a more modest budget should keep an eye out for? I apologize in advance and ones personal fancy plays a part, but based on the idea of finding a higher end VW vs a lower end Porsche. Both good but one more desireable and expensive. Thanks

[Daso]

Steve and Ken,

 

Yes, those were the two Kaneyasu swords on eBay. I invested (aside from other books) in Markus Seskos index of sword smiths which I am really excited to receive and will continue the search. I just can't afford $4,000 now so I have a limited budget even while saving and while patient would like to find something in the near future.

[SteveM]

When the nihonto bug first bites, resisting the urge to buy one, any one, that strikes your fancy and is within your price range is a hard thing to do. In truth, I think it is a battle most people lose. I lost it, and my first purchase (like many on this board, I presume) was a shonky gimei wakizashi. I bought it because a) it had a signature!, and b] it had a hamon!. There were other factors too: I was living temporarily in Japan and I didn't know how long my stay would last - I thought it would be a good souvenir (or, that was part of my justification for buying it). It came from a small-town sword shop, the kind that is so far off the beaten path you would never normally go there. Unfortunately I had no idea what I was buying. I had no idea it might be gimei. I had no idea that the market is awash in gimei wakizashi of poor-to-average quality. As a young man, that $1000 I spent on the sword would have served me better in the bank, or in shares, or in a proper suit. Or, it would have brought me $1000 closer to a proper sword. 

 

But I spent it, and that's that. I still have the shonky gimei wakizashi. It didn't kill me. It did teach me a few things, and I was able to learn about caring for the sword, and assembling the parts, and it helped me familiarize myself with the terminology. And it was money spent at a time when I had no other obligations; no kids, no house payment, etc... But its something I dread re-selling to a proper sword shop because they will roll their eyes and then maybe give me a hundred bucks for it out of sympathy. The sword on ebay is the same kind of sword, I think. Perhaps slightly better than my first purchase. 

[Ken-Hawaii]

Well said, Steve! :clap: Hope you're listening, Darius....

 

Ken

 

[Stephen]

 

 

Type: Long Wakizashi (almost katana size)

 

 

Great selling point, worked for me with the lady's back in the day.

[Daso]

Steve, your story made me almost laugh a bit since it was like reading about myself. Ted, my ears have opened and I'm listening to you all and will resists the urge and keep my eyes on the hopeful target of a koto Katana with papers as my first piece to keep with my collection of other ancient swords. I will keep saving but have to admit the bug has me itching to have that first real sword I can enjoy. I have the basement gimei wakizashi in poor condition my friend gave me but it's not doing the trick. Thanks all.

[Jim P]

Darius, If this is the sword, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Papered-Mutsu-No-Kami-Kaneyasu-Katana-Nagasa-65-9-cm-25-94-inch-U-88-/221946884613?rmvSB=true

I would ask for a close up of the boshi and mei, Its interesting they took pics, but no close ups of the mei or boshi and no close ups of the blade ? The papers by JTK (Juho Token Kenkyukai)   I would be wary of and do my homework

[Shugyosha]

There are close-up pictures of the boshi and mei if you scroll down the page. The boshi looks intact to me but the lighting isn't great and I'd ask for more pictures before doing anything. The signature on the papers is by Kobayashi Yukinobu who the seller says is on the NBTHK shinsa panel, which kind of begs the question why go to this guy and not the NBTHK themselves? Afterall, the sword is in Japan...

 

That said, it does look like a well forged blade (subject to the boshi holding up) and could look really good with a touch up polish. 

 

If you google the body that issued the papers there are a few examples that come up including blades sold by Juwelier Strebel. 

 

http://www.juwelier-strebel.de/asien-kunst/Japan/verkaufte-artikelsold-items.html

[Chango]

I don't know... nothing has stoked the Nihonto fire for me like buying my first cheap, yet authentic blade of questionable vintage.

 

Sure, connoisseurs would thumb their noses at a lower end blade like that but the difference between never having owned any authentic Japanese sword and having one... any Japanese sword that actually saw feudal Japan is pretty big.

 

If you REALLY want to see money wasted on swords, let me tell you a story or three about a younger, dumber Jason and the replica sword market! Personally, I'd rather have a "boring" low end but authentic Nihonto than a whole trunkload of $1K Hanwei and Bugei faux-katanas.

 

WTF was I thinking back then?!    Then again, it was the 90's, there was little to no international online trading and nihonto prices were at all-time highs, so maybe I should cut myself a break? 

 

Anyway, we can't all start with masterpieces and generally have to work our way up. Likewise, we don't all have huge hobby budgets and the lower end stuff is surprisingly affordable.

 

If I was gonna give advice to my fellow Nihonto neophytes it would be: GO FOR IT! 

 

...but before you put money down, educate yourself so you don't end up with a fatally flawed poor quality sword you paid too much for or even worse, a fake. It also helps to keep your budget low so that if you do make a mistake on your first purchase(s), it won't be a huge one!

 

Also, recognize the magic of Nihonto and learning about them is great fun and hobbies do tend to cost money, not make it... but don't get so starry-eyed that you are blinded into making stupid decisions.

[Brian]

My advice would be not to confine yourself to age. Everyone wants a Koto. But you can find some excellent Shinto/Shinshinto, and even Gendaito can make an excellent entry point into Nihonto. Rather a great Gendaito than some poor kazu-uchimono Koto. It's about the quality. Some collect for age, the older the better. But I suspect that really only applies to good/excellent smiths. The average smith was no better than a good Shinto smith.
Don't exclude the newer swords from your searching. You may be surprised.

[Jim P]

Brian is right as usual, (Everyone wants a Koto) that why the better ones cost a lot more, old does not imply better and at the lower end of the koto  market kazu-uchimono, tired, and blades with flaws abound. I would prefer a good shinto than a bad koto.

John, I think I remember someone saying that NBTHK had never heard of Kobayashi Yukinobu being on their shinsa panel,  ?

[Daso]

My advice would be not to confine yourself to age. Everyone wants a Koto. But you can find some excellent Shinto/Shinshinto, and even Gendaito can make an excellent entry point into Nihonto. Rather a great Gendaito than some poor kazu-uchimono Koto. It's about the quality. Some collect for age, the older the better. But I suspect that really only applies to good/excellent smiths. The average smith was no better than a good Shinto smith.

Don't exclude the newer swords from your searching. You may be surprised.

I guess I feel that everyone was pushing me to go Koto and save.  I do want the best possible, but at the end of the day, I was a good example of a real sword that someone wore by their side.  It's the history of the blade that I am interested in.  400, 500 or 600 years old is not my main focus. I guess I was given too many do's and don'ts. I still like the idea of a nice Jumyo blade.

 

I don't know... nothing has stoked the Nihonto fire for me like buying my first cheap, yet authentic blade of questionable vintage.

 

Sure, connoisseurs would thumb their noses at a lower end blade like that but the difference between never having owned any authentic Japanese sword and having one... any Japanese sword that actually saw feudal Japan is pretty big.

 

If you REALLY want to see money wasted on swords, let me tell you a story or three about a younger, dumber Jason and the replica sword market! Personally, I'd rather have a "boring" low end but authentic Nihonto than a whole trunkload of $1K Hanwei and Bugei faux-katanas.

 

WTF was I thinking back then?!    Then again, it was the 90's, there was little to no international online trading and nihonto prices were at all-time highs, so maybe I should cut myself a break? 

 

Anyway, we can't all start with masterpieces and generally have to work our way up. Likewise, we don't all have huge hobby budgets and the lower end stuff is surprisingly affordable.

 

If I was gonna give advice to my fellow Nihonto neophytes it would be: GO FOR IT! 

 

...but before you put money down, educate yourself so you don't end up with a fatally flawed poor quality sword you paid too much for or even worse, a fake. It also helps to keep your budget low so that if you do make a mistake on your first purchase(s), it won't be a huge one!

 

Also, recognize the magic of Nihonto and learning about them is great fun and hobbies do tend to cost money, not make it... but don't get so starry-eyed that you are blinded into making stupid decisions.

I am in agreement on this.  Again, if it is real and it pleases my eye and I enjoy it, I get an even bigger satisfaction finding a nice piece that maybe just wasn't good enough for someone else, but I'm still happy with, learn from and get to hold and play with.

 

There are close-up pictures of the boshi and mei if you scroll down the page. The boshi looks intact to me but the lighting isn't great and I'd ask for more pictures before doing anything. The signature on the papers is by Kobayashi Yukinobu who the seller says is on the NBTHK shinsa panel, which kind of begs the question why go to this guy and not the NBTHK themselves? Afterall, the sword is in Japan...

 

That said, it does look like a well forged blade (subject to the boshi holding up) and could look really good with a touch up polish. 

 

If you google the body that issued the papers there are a few examples that come up including blades sold by Juwelier Strebel. 

 

http://www.juwelier-strebel.de/asien-kunst/Japan/verkaufte-artikelsold-items.html

I liked this sword, but I guess the common consensus is that it's sort of meh!! I was offering considerably less than what was listed and was declined, so I'll keep looking.  I was a bit more interested in it due to the blade length as well.  Bit longer than Wakazashi.