The Mysterious "w" Stamp!

[Bridges]

@Bruce Penningtonhere is a W on a stunning Japanese type 19 of mine. What you may be interested in are the 2 additional deep proof marks on the saya

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow Noah, great find!  And once again, an example showing no rhyme or reason as to why the mark is put right side up or upside down.  Here's the only other 19 I have on file and the mark is the other way around.   Note both have the Tokyo 1st "TO" but different other stamp.  Were they early, personalized inspector stamps?  Or shop logo?

 

This new one looks like the katakana I "イ" , but it's got an extra small stroke at the upper right.  What do you see @Kiipu or @BANGBANGSAN?

   other one for the record   

[vajo]

Could it be the mark of the showa steel works?

 

[Bridges]

I have no idea Bruce, can’t find any info in the 2 books I have and I can’t find the Edward Tinker forum where he had a similar type 19 with a W from where you have your photo. But maybe it was a secret group of individuals who were in a cult and as a sign of devotion marked their blades….just kidding! Y’all are way in over my head, I’ll watch from the sidelines fellas.

[Kiipu]

Hi Noah, I do have some questions for you in regards to your sword.  Is this a parade sword 指揮刀 or a combat sword?  Secondly, is the scabbard finish nickel or chrome?

[Bridges]

Hey @Kiipu, here’s the link. It’s being shipped out tomorrow. Do you suspect it to be gimei? Its a parade sword, upon review everything seemed to check out. Do you see something?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265709392175?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=hYRXTkA_QDu&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5b5Igx0HQ7e&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Kiipu]

9 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Note both have the Tokyo 1st "TO" but different other stamp.

 

On both swords, it looks like a 京 and not a 東.

 

If this is an army inspection mark, which it appears to be, then it belonged to the following organization.

陸軍兵器行政本部造兵部板橋監督班

Rikugun Heiki Gyōsei Honbu Zōheibu 陸軍兵器行政本部造兵部 Production Department of Army Ordnance Administration Headquarters.

Itabashi Kantoku Han 板橋監督班 Itabashi Supervisory Unit = 京.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Kiipu

[BANGBANGSAN]

26 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

 

On both swords, it looks like a 京 and not a 東.

 

If this is an army inspection mark, which it appears to be, then it belonged to the following organization.

Rikugun Heiki Gyōsei Honbu Zōheibu 陸軍兵器行政本部造兵部 Production Department of Army Ordnance Administration Headquarters.

Itabashi Kantoku Han 板橋監督班 Itabashi Supervisory Unit = 京.

@Bruce Pennington

I agree with Thomas,both kanji are 京。京 mark  is also used by 東京第二陸軍造兵廠 京都宇治製造所（Tokyo 2nd Army Arsenal Kyoto Uji Factory).Maybe the circled K is also means Kyoto Uji Factory?

 

[Bridges]

Look @Bruce Pennington, I found another!! Hennadiy2006 is selling this type 19 police saber on eBay with a W. Interesting bird though, police crest on backstrap but army cherry blossom!

[Bruce Pennington]

17 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Production Department of Army Ordnance Administration Headquarters.

Itabashi Kantoku Han 板橋監督班 Itabashi Supervisory Unit = 京.

Edited 14 hours ago by Kiipu

 

16 hours ago, BANGBANGSAN said:

京 mark  is also used by 東京第二陸軍造兵廠 京都宇治製造所（Tokyo 2nd Army Arsenal Kyoto Uji Factory).Maybe the circled K is also means Kyoto Uji Factory?

 

Any way to decide on one of these over the other, guys?  Do you both have documents to reference?  Both sound plausible, but it would be nice to pin it down.

 

10 hours ago, Bridges said:

I found another!

Thanks Noah.  That's 3 distinct inspection marks now.

[Bruce Pennington]

Also, would Thomas or Trystan venture a translation of the first circled kanji?  We have circled "K", "Ka", and "(what?)".

[Kiipu]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:14 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

This new one looks like the katakana I "イ" , but it's got an extra small stroke at the upper right.

 

It is an encircled イ .

㋑

[BANGBANGSAN]

10 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Also, would Thomas or Trystan venture a translation of the first circled kanji?  We have circled "K", "Ka", and "(what?)".

イ

[BANGBANGSAN]

11 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

 

 

Any way to decide on one of these over the other, guys?  Do you both have documents to reference?  Both sound plausible, but it would be nice to pin it down.

 

 

Maybe when 京 used by 板橋監督班 (Itabashi Supervisory Unit it) it pairs with encircled イ（I), when 京 used by 京都宇治製造所（ Kyoto Uji Factory) it pairs with encircled K?

[Bridges]

@Bruce Penningtoni found another while browsing auction sites. This is a type 98 with no other markings than the W. Auctioneer says this one has 2 W stamps

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Ron.  I have 2 other zoheito marked this way (now 3).

[Bridges]

@Bruce Penningtonfound another on eBay, this time a parade saber with an interesting bohi as most type 19 bohi I have encountered are high and shallow. This one is deep and centered.

[Bruce Pennington]

14 hours ago, Bridges said:

found another on eBay, this time a parade saber

I don't think I've ever seen that circled "KO" stamp.  Have to add that to the Unknown files.  Thanks Noah!

[Bridges]

anytime Bruce!

[Kiipu]

㋕ W 京

[Conway S]

Recently picked up this Type 19. Thought I would post because it has the "W" in a place I have not seen yet (and bordered too).

 

 

Conway

[Kiipu]

A nice Wakase Military Sword Workshop 若瀬軍刀製作所 logo.  I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of the hilt top if your willing.

[Conway S]

Thomas, 

 

Ah! So there's a difference between "W" and stamps that resemble "w."  I was going to ask if this other stamp was the maker mark, but I guess you answered my question. Aside from some of the braided wire missing, the sword is in overall nice shape.  Here are some more pictures of the hilt.

 

Conway

 

[Conway S]

Does anyone know what this mark says? Hard for me to make out the characters. As a student of Chinese, I usually take the characters I can read and paste them in a Japanese translator.  

 

Conway 

 

[Kiipu]

30 minutes ago, Conway S said:

So there's a difference between "W" and stamps that resemble "w."

 

Many thanks for the hilt picture Conway.

 

The Wakase company logo can be seen in this picture posted by @k morita.

Sign on Sword, Post #2

 

27 minutes ago, Conway S said:

Does anyone know what this mark says?

 

特許 = Patent.

[Conway S]

I could see "patent" clearly too once I looked at the picture referenced in the link. Thanks! The reverse side of the lower hilt area has the patent numbers. 

 

Conway

[Kiipu]

Conway, your sword is only the second one known.  It was made during or after 1942 as that is when the patent was issued.  Below is a link to the other known sword.

Police Sword?

[Conway S]

Very interesting! I see from other posts on the forum they made fittings (ex. scabbard drags). Any thoughts on what specifically they were patenting here?

 

Conway

[Kiipu]

The sword would have been assembled by Wakase.  Not everything is made in-house, even back then.

 

The patent did not belong to Wakase.  It had something to do with the production process of the grip.  I was slightly off in my dates above.  The patent was issued in December 1942 so your sword dates from 1943 to 1944.

[tbonesullivan]

Another TAKEHISA!  Dated 昭 和 十 八 年 秋 - 1943 AKI

 

Tang has some rust areas but there is definitely one clear "W" at the bottom on the side with the Mei.  The fittings are matched as well, and the Tsuba and Seppa are marked with "& 3 3 1", while the tsuka, fuchi, and scabbard lock are marked "& 三 三 一". Never seen an ampersand used as a matching number, but I guess it works!