Help Identifying Unsigned Katana Age Or Type

[Daso]

Hello All,

 

I also posted this in a continuing thread I had and as I'm new at Japanese swords need help.  

 

Hello all,

Picked this up and wanted to see if anyone could help me with their thoughts on this Katana. Some of my (newbie) observances which could absolutely be wrong, but I'm trying.

Blade tip - O-Kissaki
Temper line - Notare
Curve - Shallow
Tang - Square tip - Kiri - Kaku-ichi-monji
Grain - Hard to see any grain - plain ( I hope it isn't a cheap new steel sword)
Shape - Shinogi - Zukuri
Blade length is 26 1/2 to the beginning of the Habaki, 1" habaki and 6" tang with two holes. There also appear to be three dings in the blade which look like a sword strike but not deep. No hagire that I can see with 400x scope.

[dominnimod]

Is an old long sword cutted down(so maybe could have been signed originally) , so is hard to say how old is it exactly,experts in this forum could make a wild guess about age/school by looking the hamon,but without the original shape,all i can say it is around early edo(shinto)

[Alex A]

Hard to get a grasp of the sori from pictures, but from what I can see, I'm guessing Momoyama/early Edo.

 

Just to add, better buying swords in good polish, swords are expensive to have polished.

 

You could ask a qualified polisher to polish out a window, and get his opinion.

[Daso]

It is a fairly straight blade with little sori.  What is the best way to figure out? string from tip to tang and measure distance of gap at highest point?  I guess this wouldn't really be worth a polish to see what the Hamon really looks like. Overall it's in nice shape.  

[Daso]

Hard to get a grasp of the sori from pictures, but from what I can see, I'm guessing Momoyama/early Edo.

 

Just to add, better buying swords in good polish, swords are expensive to have polished.

 

You could ask a qualified polisher to polish out a window, and get his opinion.

Hi Alex, thanks. I agree on polish, but I guess it all depends on the price that I purchased the Katana for. Since prices aren't discussed, I haven't seen a decent condition Katana in the price range I purchased this. Ts a toss up I guess as I've only found decent wakizashi in this price range generally higher.

[Alex A]

Its difficult from pictures Darius, this may be of use, give you bit more of an idea http://www.yamakawadojo.com/the%20japanese%20sword%20historical%20changes%20in%20shape.pdf

[Alex A]

And another http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/sugata/shape.htm

[Daso]

Alex, thanks. It could be 7,8 or 9. Like all say late Muromachi early Edo. Taking it to NY token Kai this Sun and see what everyone thinks.

[Daso]

I could also be a cut down Nanbokucho.

[Alex A]

Not 7 (one handed katateuchigatana), I was thinking suriage (cut down) kanbun shape (9), or even kanbun being made to look like koto, then changed my mind, looks wide at the kissaki, but I could be wrong lol

 

Defo not Nanbokucho

 

Remember, there are always exceptions to the rules.

 

Getting late here, a lot to this hobby, as you can see

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think I see takanoha yasuri in the lower portion of the tang on the pic (10) of the omote side.

[Daso]

I think I see takanoha yasuri in the lower portion of the tang on the pic (10) of the omote side.

Jussi, are you talking about my photo? I can't see that at all. I'll use my 400x scope to look in that area when I get home but I looked pretty close.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Forgive my paint skills as it's 1.45 in here but I am seeing this.

[Daso]

Forgive my paint skills as it's 1.45 in here but I am seeing this.

I will look closer with scope tonight. I wish I could see it but I'll try and report back. thanks for the target.

[Daso]

Did he sign with the hawk feathers or actual signature? I sort of see what you are talking about but I thought those were just filing marks. I'll look later and post the super mag photo

[Ken-Hawaii]

Those ARE just filing marks, Darius, & many smiths used them when they shaped nakago. But at least it's a hint as to what you might have. I see a suriage Shinto blade, basic suguha hamon, for what it's worth. The kissaki is also chu-, not o-, & there might be some notare in the hamon, but I don't see it. The steel is very shiny, too; not sure what that indicates.

 

Ken

[Daso]

Ken, thanks. I was just looking at katana as I was reading your post and looking closely at the Hamon almost see more of a irregular zig zag pattern sort of like Gunome or similar. Hard to tell even in person. The thing that actually really concerns me is the shiny steel. It doesn't seem to really have a grain which I am concerned means it's no a folded blade. I am able to return it which is the good point but it's price was pretty good for what it (might) be if real. I took a close up for Jussi and sort of saw the lines he was talking about but I agree that they look like some file marks. I tried to shine some direct light on Hamon to give you a better look. Really not sure. Will see what people over at NY toke Kai think this weekend. Does this Hamon look odd as well?

[Ken-Hawaii]

There is often no perceptible grain in the jihada of Shinto & Shinshinto blades, but the shininess of the steel does look odd to me. Yes, showing it to experts in person is an excellent idea. I can see some detail in your latest closeup shots, but really can't tell much more. Please do get back to us after the Token Kai, & let us know what they tell you. Good luck!

 

Ken

 

[Daso]

are Shinto blades typically less desirable than others. My preference is still to have a katana over wakizashi if possible.

[Daso]

There is often no perceptible grain in the jihada of Shinto & Shinshinto blades, but the shininess of the steel does look odd to me. Yes, showing it to experts in person is an excellent idea. I can see some detail in your latest closeup shots, but really can't tell much more. Please do get back to us after the Token Kai, & let us know what they tell you. Good luck!

 

Ken

Thanks. Will definitely follow up when I know more this weekend. Hope it's not a fake.

[Ken-Hawaii]

I would look around real hard at the Token Kai, Darius, because anything you buy there has an excellent chance of being legitimate. This is obviously your first Nihonto purchase, & I hope you've done enough studying to choose a blade that you'll be proud to own six months or a year from now. And this one may not be it....

 

Ken

 

[Daso]

Agreed.

[Alex A]

Hi again Darius, this is an excellent starting point for new folk, lots of info http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12646-advices-for-newbies-buyers-rules-of-thumb/?hl=%2Brules+%2Bthumb

 

In your new photos, looks to be grain (hada), be good to hear what the guys down there think.

 

Mumei (unsigned) Shinto blades are not as accepted as mumei koto, although there are some that say you should not buy mumei full stop and others like me (not so fussy). Yours may have the mei cut off when shortened = more guessing games.

 

Its good that you are able to send back if not happy, I sent my first purchase back, after reading a few books, it opened my eyes.

 

That book was "the samurai sword, a hand book". Its cheap, many other good starter books out there too.

 

The less guess work with a sword purchase, the better.

 

Good luck with the sword.

[Daso]

Alex, funny you mention it but that's exactly my first book and I've read through it a few times. Now I want facts and fundamentals of Japanese swords but it's so expensive.

[Alex A]

$473!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on amazon

 

Only paid £20, wished id bought a dozen.

[Daso]

$473!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on amazon

 

Only paid £20, wished id bought a dozen.

And that's the least expensive one, Ridiculous

[LakeBum]

I think I paid 30$ for mine a year ago.  Did it really become that scarce within the span of a year?

[Daso]

I'll give you $50 . One guy was selling for $1,000

[Ken-Hawaii]

Forget about that book, Darius.  It's good, but not essential, especially at that ridiculous price. Check out https://smile.amazon.com/Sword-Japan-Joseph-Bott/dp/1304242404/ref=sr_1_1instead.  It's an excellent reference book for starters, & costs a whole $16 on Amazon.

 

Ken

 

[Daso]

Ken, thanks. I just ordered it