Going To See A Sword

[Prewar70]

I'm going to see this Wakizashi Friday afternoon.  It's the start of my turkey season here in MN so hopefully I will have a nice gobbler on ice in the morning and a fun sword to consider in the afternoon!  Here's what I have for pics so far.  Saya is in good condition.  Blade has a few openings as you can see and is unsigned.  Provenance, same old story, sword has been in the family a long time, brought back by a world traveler.  One thing that did jump out at me is the tsuka.  The ray skin, if that's what it is, looked a little off to me, in color and the nodules all seem very uniform.  Everything else seemed honest.  What do you think? Thank you.

 

[jason_mazzy]

koshirae looks like a Meiji wrap...............

[Prewar70]

Thanks Jason, 1800s vintage maybe? The nakago has uneven aging/patina, doesn't looked cleaned just not very old yet. Does that sound right?

[Grey Doffin]

Nakago looks pretty recent and the blade is too damaged/defected to have much value.  Koshirae is likely worth more than the blade and that's not a lot.

Grey

[jason_mazzy]

agree, though I think I dig that tsuba... need a better pic.

[Prewar70]

He's asking 600 for it. Does the blade really have little value due to the defects?

[SAS]

Price seems fair to me, even with the flaws, though better condition swords can sometimes be found in that range. Polish seems fairly recent and not top shelf.

[Shugyosha]

The price isn't bad but it's a mu mei shinto/ more probably shin-shinto wakizashi with a big hole in it...for me there would have to be something I got from owning it that makes it better than having $600 in the bank...

[Prewar70]

Bought the sword. Looked way better in person than in pictures. Looking forward to posting some detailed photos when I get a chance.

[Surfson]

Looks to me like an authentic wakizashi, it's all there and in decent condition, including the polish.  I would have bet that the mounts look better in person, and it's ok at the asking price and if you got it at some discount from $600 you did very well.   Probably best to resist the temptation to strip the mounts from it for other purposes, since I agree with Grey that the value is mostly in the mounts.  Looking forward to seeing some better photos of the tsuba, menuki and F/K.  

[Prewar70]

Looking forward to everyones' feedback.  Thank you.

[Prewar70]

The sepas are inscribed with the same kanji, if someone can tell me what that means.

 

I am tickled over this sword.  Thanks for looking.

[SwordGuyJoe]

An honest wakizashi and at $600, you shouldn't lose money when it's time to upgrade.

[Stephen]

Nice pick up, and for its age its doing well, im a old fart and have more dings than this 300? year old wak.

[Prewar70]

I might be going out a limb, but there are a number of very faint, but sharp lines on the spine of the sword.  Could these be kirikomi or battle scars from coming into contact with other blades during battle?  Difficult to photo but hopefully you can see them.  They seem to be clustered, I can make out 4 or so, 2 together.

 

 

[Ray Singer]

Looks like shinae.

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/shinae.jpg

 

Best regards,

Ray

[Stephen]

Ok im not quite that cracked.....zip it Joey...LOL

[SwordGuyJoe]

Can't resist - sounds like you and the wak have more in common than we first thought.

[Prewar70]

Ah, good one. I like my hypothesis better. I will say that the lines are not squiggly, but all straight and defined. I'm going with battle scars!

 

Any ideas/help on the seppa kanji?

[Davidarmy]

Send the sword to a polisher for opinion.

 

D Easley

[Davidarmy]

Hope is not a course of action.

 

D Easley

[Grey Doffin]

Sorry but it makes no sense to send this to a polisher.  James would be out the cost of post both ways, the polisher certainly has better use of his time, and all that would be learned is what's been said here already: this is a ho-hum unsigned wakizashi with serious defects that isn't worth a polish.

Swords like this get polished because beginners won't give up hope; old timers know better.

Grey

[Peter Bleed]

Why would anyone want this sword? If i ask that question I can't come up with an answer. James, You have gained some insights and information by considering this sword, But its is not worthy. Keep looking.

And Ray is right,Those things are shinae

Peter

[Prewar70]

I don't know if anyone listening is a hunter, but reading your post Peter got me to thinking.  If you've ever been to Africa, or here in North America, or anywhere in the world chasing game, you can usually put hunters in one of two camps.  Some are there because they want the biggest and the best, nothing else will do.  And others are there more for the experience and memories, and a good representative animal is enough.  It might not make B&C, but it might have been the oldest, with the most character, or whatever other attribute blows your skirt up.  I'm a neophyte nihonto admirer/collector.  I can go to AOI Japan and buy a very nice papered sword and I probably will, as can anybody.  But what I am finding is there is a thrill to the chase that can be just as rewarding, if not more in some cases.  I've experienced that in other areas of collecting as well.  I have no false hopes about this sword, no plans to polish, and no desire to try and make it something that it isn't.  But I can still appreciate it!  I don't mind character, a few flaws here and there, but what I really like is originality and honesty.  This piece is honest, it's not pretending to be anything that it isn't.  I'm asking a lot of questions and taking a bunch of photos (more than fellow members Muramasa haha) to learn and soak up what I can from this very knowledgeable community.  So I believe this sword to be worthy of owning, and I've looked at it every night before going to bed and after watching the new season of Outlander    That old dagga boy with his horns worn to a nub is every bit the trophy compared to that soft 40 incher!  So I appreciate all the commentary and information, it all helps.

[Stephen]

James you hit the nail on the head, these old time guys poo pooing the sword because they go to shows and have been for years, spent the better part of their live surrounded by very good swords, they have no adventure left in them, keep searching and make some shows then learn nihonto see good stuff, then when you get as versed as them you can tell a newbie, why would you want that??

Hopefully hell tell you because its a thrill to uncover something that old with that much history, it makes my mind wonder.

[Peter Bleed]

Hey, wait  minute. Steve is calling ME an "old guy.". Holy cow.

James, your babies will not starve if you buy this sword. It also won't take much room in your basement. If you keep hunting, learn from each discovery, build a library, I am pretty sure that this sword will move to your basement.

Sword hunting is THE American style of sword collecting. You are following a well-traveled path. Good luck.

Peter

[Grey Doffin]

Don't get me wrong.  I wasn't saying James shouldn't have bought the sword, just that he shouldn't spend money to have a polisher look at it.  There is a tendency on NMB, for posters to suggest that blades need to be polished and I often think that would be a mistake.

Grey

[SwordGuyJoe]

Very well said James! There certainly is a thrill to finding something that can be lost over time and as a collection matures. While the message of, "Why would you buy that?" Can be taken many ways, the way I read it is - in some cases (not attempting to put words in Peter's mouth), is that they are trying to help you save $600 in this case and get something better. That said, as I mentioned above, it is an honest Wakizashi. Not at risk of making Juyo any time soon, but then it's not trying to be something like that.

 

One thing that can be lost on "seasoned" collectors (tongue firmly in cheek as Stephen is getting well seasoned!) is that when you move to buying $3k, then $4k, then $5k (etc.) swords, the risk of saying, "Oh what the hell?! Why not buy it?!", goes up dramatically and those with budgets cannot make loose decisions with that amount of money. The purchase becomes logical, measured, investment based, etc., and some of the 'fun'/emotion can be lost. Don't get me wrong, I still get one hell of a kick every time a sword delivers - as I seldom find stuff at shows these days that fits my niche - but it is somewhat different. Maybe doing the right thing up front, research, etc., takes some of the fun out of it. I do remember militaria show finds, where I say, "Okay! Let's find out what I bought! I wonder what that stamp on the 'tang' means. It must make it really special!" It was more "fun" but I sure as heck enjoy the swords I buy now one hell of a lot better than the ones I used to buy.

 

It is interesting having my evolution in collecting documented here on the NMB. I have read back to some of my earliest posts and been startled by just how stupid I sounded! I am sure I still do to quite a few here. You are obviously off to a far better start than me! Good luck, enjoy the ride, and have fun with your sword and collecting.

[Mark]

plan to come to the Chicago show, you are not that far away. You will see and learn a lot and can show your sword to polishers in person and get an opinion.  You can see and compare  hundreds of swords in one place

[Alan F]

Turkey season.

Hunting for turkeys, or the advice of a jive turkey?

 

 

Alan F. (relatively old guy who chooses not to collect bargain bin stuff)

 

P.S. The last four posts, starting with Peter Bleed's post, were very sensible.