Katakiriba/echizen Den Question

[Jiro49]

Were Echizen smith known for making katakiriba katana? If so any references?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Bazza]

Hi Matt, they are well-known for making kiraha katana. I have one!!  For references you could start right here on the Board - there might still be pictures of my katana:

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/3100-katakiri-ba-blades/

 

Try the search function for any other threads with kiriha katana.  Google is always good.  Try echizen kiriha katana for starters.

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

[Jiro49]

Much appreciated! I googled and checked what books I had but came up wanting..

 

Thanks again!

[Darcy]

This is generally starting with copying Soshu works of Sadamune / Shizu / Naoe Shizu and you see it in first and second generation Yasutsugu as a result. Then in the group following their teachings. I had a Tsuguhiro in this style. Since it is coming down from the central smiths in this school, I'd assume any of the smiths might make such a piece. 

 

If the blade is a katana and looks suriage / mumei this is probably made to appear as such, copying koto work. Second generation Yasutsugu made several like this. First generation Yasutsugu seems to have been more "inspired" in his copying than to always make faithful copies. 

[Jiro49]

Darcy, thanks for the info. It's ubu and signed shigetaka as I could find references for the yasutsugu school I couldn't find anything specifically about the shigetaka line. But Makes sense that they would as well.

 

Thanks again!!

[Darcy]

There are three Shigetaka listed in Fujishiro. Chu-jo to Chu-saku. Made work in Nanban tetsu sometimes. Fujishiro says that the first of these, his work resembles Shodai Yasutsugu and Sadakuni. He's dated from about the time to be a student of Yasutsugu and is Wazamono. Second generation is said to parallel the third and fourth generation Yasutsugu work rather than the shodai Shigetaka. Fujishiro says as well that Kinai made horimono on the first generation's blades, and this is true for the first two Yasutsugu and Echizen Sadatsugu. Third generation Fujishiro says can no longer be found.

 

It sounds to me like something very legit and if it's katakiriba and we take Fujishiro at face value it probably is work of the first generation then.

 

Post some photos, it would be nice to see this and if it's not papered you should consider sending it in. 

[Geraint]

Hi Matt.

 

I would love to see some photos too.  Spent some time digging for Shigetaka and found some information in the past.  Suzuki, in his book on tanto says that Yasutsugu was his teacher, there is a katakiriba blade by Yasutsugu illustrated in "Cutting Edge - Japanese swords in the British Museum" .  Nagayama Kokan suggests Seki Kanenori as his teacher.   Bath Nakaharu and Kokan say that katakiriba was seen in blades from this period and again in shinshinto.  Unokubi zukuri are also seen, one here, http://www.japanszwaard.nl/z22.html which supports the use of somewhat unusual blade shapes by this school.  Hawley lists several generations going on into Shinto but only the first two sign Harima daijo Shigetaka.  You don't mention the size of your sword but if this is a wakizashi or tanto one would expect to find "Echizen" on one side of the nakago and the rest of the mei on the normal side.  The mei of the first generation is signed with slightly larger kanji while the second tends to be smaller and much more constrained.

 

Not sure how well you can see it but here is an image of one to check with.

 

 

Looking forward to your pictures.

 

All the best.

Shigetaka.docx

[Jiro49]

I'll get some pics soon, I'm in the process of buying it.

 

It has old green nbthk papers that state "kodai" which I was told most likely means they couldn't pin it down but it meant it wasn't the shodai, so either nidai or sandai as the mei has "harima daijo" in it.

 

As I said I'll get pics soon, thanks for all the input!

[Jiro49]

Some pics.. On the paper to the left of shigetaka is the "kodai" kanji I was referring to. Also someone added "Ryu" in higana in pen.

 

Thanks again for the input!

[Jiro49]

Geraint, I missed the "harima daijo" part, I thought the sandai used that as well...? I am a newbie though.

 

The nagasa is 60cm

 

Thanks again!

[Geraint]

Dear Matt.

 

Thanks for the pictures, just as a matter of interest is the koshirae all complete?  I can't make out in one photo if the tsuka is fitted and there is  a spare tsuba or if they all belong together.  I think this is a nice find!  As regards the generations, well Darcy has quoted from Fujishiro that the third generation cannot be found, I have conflicting information from a variety of sources and have not yet found a definitive.  Hawley suggest first two use Harima Daijo, third nothing and fourth Used Hyuga.  Some sources state that a Kanbun shinto sugata must make it a third generation because the second only worked in an earlier period.

 

I suppose we are doing well to have the sort of detail that we do from this period but sometimes a definite answer would be nice.  I  keep an eye out for papers that specify the generations and always have a look when I come across a blade by this lot but so far haven't been able to satisfy myself on this one.  Let me know what you find out and enjoy the sword.

 

All the best.

[Jiro49]

Here is the koshirae