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Tadayoshi 一 Real?

Gordon Sanders

By Gordon Sanders
in Nihonto

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Gordon Sanders Experienced

Gordon Sanders

Posted
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Hi guys

 

Visiting a friend in China and he showed me a couple of swords. Both seem a bit HINKY, and wanted to run the Mei by you

 

What do you think. Real or fake?

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post-3510-0-27456900-1459088982_thumb.jpeg

 

My gut says fake with my limited knowledge

Gordon Sanders Experienced

Gordon Sanders

Posted
  • Author
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I was visiting an antique dealer friend in Kunming China

He mentions he has a nice sword

 

Go to his house and my first impression is chinese fake l

 

Opinions ?

Mark Veteran

Mark

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papers for the Nagamori look genuine to me.  The other paper is for a nice tachi koshirae. The Tadayoshi does NOT look like Chinese fake, may or may not be shoshin, if there is a paper post a picture

ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

Posted
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.......He mentions he has a nice sword

 

Go to his house and my first impression is chinese fake.......

Gordon,

 

I can't really read Japanese but I don't see HIZEN TADAYOSHI on the paper. The other one is for the NAGAMORI.

 

If I may give you an advice: Don't buy anything until you have aquired the knowledge to tell what is fake and what is genuine. 

Gordon Sanders Experienced

Gordon Sanders

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haha. Interesting. my impression may have been colored by the fact that they are stored in the koshirae and it felt a bit cheap,

 

He absolutely only knows that he was told they were nice. Other than that he has no knowledge. Itis why he asked me.

 

I said I would ask the smart people

 

Guess I am a bit of a noob :-D

Jim P Proficient

Jim P

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Hi Gordon, A quick look at a few  tadayoshi I think you are right to think ? but need pictures of the blade to get a better idea  :)

  • 3 weeks later...
KarlPeterSmith Contributor

KarlPeterSmith

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I may be able to kill 2 birds with one stone here...  that crazy looking odd 'kuni' in the Tadayoshi blade matches one signed by both Tadayoshi and Munenaga around 1613-14

 

(Date derived by signature comparison - from listing every Tadayoshi School sword in the land in chronological order - not from any other ref.)

 

and... I was wanting to contact Paul Bowman after reading about his Niji Mei Shodai/Sandai dilemma from way-way back but this blade in this blog is very current and the data I present here is relevant to the Tadayoshi seen in this thread.

 

I hope this clears up a previously vague area presented in a few books I've seen. 

 

You'll also see this pattern of making every-type of blade repeat itself later when the Shodai was teaching the Omi/Nidai around 1631.

 

Stop hating me for presenting the facts as the data shows.

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Gordon Sanders Experienced

Gordon Sanders

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Ha. He stores them both in the koshirae and has the shirasaya in the sword bag with the wooden mock sword

 

One item that was interesting was the tsuba were wooden, and very loose Is that normal?

  • 1 year later...
KarlPeterSmith Contributor

KarlPeterSmith

Posted
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I previously suggested that the sword here was similar to that of a 1613 Tadayoshi... and it kinda is... but a character in the signature was one I had seen before when identifying what I called 'The Dream Team' (from Echizen)

 

...led by Soboro Sukehiro and his son Tsuda Sukehiro (+ Horimono master Nagasaka Yuhoken who also trained at the Umetada school) and student Sukenao.

 

I will GUESS it was a commission. All info/deduction is in the attached picture.

 

I still think that what is concidered as the 2nd best sword making team ever (just an opinion) produced the SHARPEST SWORDS that we now attribute to SHODAI TADAYOSHI. 

 

...................................................................................................................................................................................................

On another note: ............ I'll speculate.

A 1628 sword signed Tadayoshi... seems to have been signed by either a child's hand (which would be Yukihiro or the Nidai Tadahiro using Tadayoshi as a name... that is if Masanaga>Tadayoshi(for 1 year) then Masahiro didn't use it for longer)... or the very ill Shodai himself who decided to continue using Tadayoshi while his progeny produced/commissioned Musashi Daijo Fujiwara Tadahiro's.  

 

I just at present can't see any 1624-1632 Musashi Tadahiro swords by the Shodai's hands.

 

 

 

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SwordGuyJoe Grand Master

SwordGuyJoe

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Welcome back Karl Peter, haven't seen you in while. It is nice to see your passion for Hizen blades.

 

I am curious, so I'll ask. What is the Taira blade doing in you attached pic?

Oh Karl, I missed you! Welcome back.

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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