Help First Time Buyer And Post.. Wanted Your Opinons!

[Reddawn27]

Hello guys!!! So I have the opportunity to buy two WWII swords and was wondering witch is mover valuable and better of the two. Both swords have there ups and downs. I have been trying to study IJA swords but just wanted to be certaint that these arent chinese fakes or part swords. One has a metal saya and the other leather. Both swords are signed. Is it weired that i like the leather one better even though those are seen as junk swords?? Let me know what you guys think.

[Reddawn27]

This is the leather sword.. late war?

[Stephen]

Leather is just combat cover on wood saya both type can have gendaito or showato the latter seems to be the case of both.

[Geraint]

Hi Dominic.

 

Just a thought, the fit of the tsuka doesn't seem good for sword 1.  If it's as bad as it looks then someone has been tinkering, (swopped out tsuba, seppa missing, replaced tsuka and so forth).  Of course it might be that the mekugi has not been replaced and the mounts are just placed on the blade. You don't mention what the asking price is for these, don't pay over the odds.  Neither is a Chinese fake and nor are they junk swords, they are just what they are but still command a price and are collected.

 

Enjoy.

[Reddawn27]

He is asking 1250 for the first and 1150 for the second. For what ever the reason the second sword does seem better.. Even though I am making payments on the first. The thing that bugs me about the first is that the fitting do seem off. And the saya near the end is kinda messed up. The only reason I'm going for that one is because it seems like the metal saya swords are more in demand and higher quality. But the leather sword dose seem to be in pretty good shape and the only thing I'd work on would be the end peice on the handle which seems kinda beat up. Can you do that? As long as the parts are original?

[Reddawn27]

Also I believe the first blade is signed Noshu-ju Kunihiro and I believe the second sword is a Koga Tamijo Hisakuni? A 1941 blade?

[Grey Doffin]

Since both are WWII era and probably showa-to (as opposed to a handmade gendaito), both are over priced.  You can do better.

I suggest serious study, online, in books, and at shows, before you buy a sword.

Grey

[Reddawn27]

Ok .. I think if anything I may get the leather one. While I do like the first one.. I do from time to time see better ones but for ALOT more :/. So both are machine made? They both have hamons on the blades. Can machine blades have Hamons? I would like to get one of them. Which one would you guys recommend??

[Thierry BERNARD]

Hi Dominic

i am not sure and perhaps it's just a picture problem but the cutting edge on the second one doesn't look too sharp!!!

 

PS : by the way, please sign all your posts with your name!

[Bazza]

Ok .. I think if anything I may get the leather one. While I do like the first one.. I do from time to time see better ones but for ALOT more :/. So both are machine made? They both have hamons on the blades. Can machine blades have Hamons? I would like to get one of them. Which one would you guys recommend??

Take Grey Doffin's advice.  Mine is keep looking - and study more.  Go to Sword Shows and look at really good swords before buying anything.  If you finally like traditionally made swords over Showato militaria I see here a  case of future buyer regret...

 

BaZZa.

[Brian]

They are not machine made...just not traditionally made. The temper line is the result of oil quenching instead of water quenching, and they would not have used 100% traditional steel.

Still made by a smith, just not Gendaito.

As Stephen said above, they both seem to be Showato.

[Reddawn27]

I don't really mind spending the money.. I just always wanted to have a real WWII Japanese Katana. For what ever the reason, for the last year and a half in my parts nothing has showed up. To be honest I'm leaning towards the leather on even though I have the one with the metal saya on hold. The parts around the tsuba looks too brassy from what I've seen. As if someone polished the parts with brasso. But then again I haven't seen anything cheaper nor in better condition. Is it ok the fix up swords? Or will that devalue them even more? Whould it be fine as long as the parts are original?

Thanks again Dominic!

[charlie1]

A friend of mine a long time ago told me to look at 1000 swords first and come back to buy your first one. Goes hand in hand with the books.

 

Charlie

[hxv]

Dominic,

 

To put things in perspective, for the price of the two swords mentioned in the opening post, you can buy a traditionally-made star-stamped sword in good condition and in good gunto mounts. If it were my money, and I had to have a sword NOW, I would go this route. But, I concur with others that one should read first and buy second.

 

Hoanh

[Dave R]

Dominic,

 

To put things in perspective, for the price of the two swords mentioned in the opening post, you can buy a traditionally-made star-stamped sword in good condition and in good gunto mounts. If it were my money, and I had to have a sword NOW, I would go this route. But, I concur with others that one should read first and buy second.

 

Hoanh

 After looking at the asking price, I am of the same opinion. These are priced at the high end for nothing special. Now if they were Mantetsu- Koa Ishin ...................

[Reddawn27]

Ok I was committed to getting both but now I may wait .. I would still like to get one of them (maybe the leather one? They first sword looks like it's been messed with..and the leather one seems more cleaner and period correct) and save the rest of the money for a better sword then. I just haven't found anything cheaper! I every thing I've found is is in the 2000~3000 range . Right now that it way out of my price range. I did find some Navy mounts in the 1000s. One has gold fittings and the other silver. Both with the navy stamp on the tang but with single belt mounts, not your normal two. Are navy swords any good? And what are these star stamped swords?

Thanks for your guys help! Dominic!

[hxv]

Dominic,

 

If I were you, I would read a bit more before buying.  Blades with anchor stamps are stainless steel blades. They don't even have a hardened edge.  Blades with star stamps are traditionally made blades, true gendaito.  They are hand forged and water-quenched. Occasionally, you will find them offered on NMB at around the $2k mark. Do be patient and save your money so that when good deals are offered here, you are in a position to catch the deals.

 

Hoanh

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Dominic,

You have 3 options.  You can try to find someone else to choose a sword for you (basically what you're trying to accomplish here on NMB).  You can choose one yourself; maybe you'll do OK or maybe you'll rue the day.  Or you can study a bit before buying and then be able to make an informed decision on your own.  The 3rd option makes so much sense; the 1st 2 don't.  What's more, the 3rd option will be far more rewarding and the fact that you'll understand what you've purchased will make owning the sword more rewarding also.  But you seem to have your heart set on a car wreck.

Listen to us.  We've been there and understand what you're up against.  You've been given good advice, why ignore it?

Grey

[Reddawn27]

Ok I'll wait, I didn't mean to offend. And I wasn't trying to ignore anyone advise... I just love WWII Japanese military equipment and I usually collect the type 99s and bayonets. I actually love the type 95 NCO swords over the type 98 blades dispite them being machine made. I'll save my money I just figured these were better than the NCO swords I'm after with them being signed blades and semi-machine made. And I know that the navy blades are stainless steel, I just love the IJN.. I study it quite extensively. It's just that I've never considered getting into collecting the swords until recently. And with all the Chinese fakes out there I've always just avoided them outright. While the traditional blades get all the love they rightfully deserve, I sorta always had a soft spot for the WWII blades.

 

Btw.. What are some credible sites to buy from? Also when it comes to WWII Japanese blades.. What books would you guys recommend??

Thanks always Dominic

[charlie1]

Here's a couple good ones

 

Jim Dawson Swords of Imperial Japan 1868-1945 Fuller and Gregory Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks Kokan Nagayama Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords

[hxv]

Dominic,

 

No worries. No one is annoyed or offended. We just don't want you to get burned.  If and when you are ready to purchase, if I were you, I would post in the "Wanted To Buy" forum, giving parameters of your search (type of mounts, type of blade, condition, etc.) and a price range.  This would usually result in very nice, honest deals. Just as a teaser into the world of star-stamped gendaito, here is a sword of mine in excellent Type 44 gunto mounts. The longer you save up, the better your experience will be with your future purchases. Please do not settle for less.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

 

[Reddawn27]

Thank you guys! And thank you Charlie for the list of books! And that is a beautiful type 44!! I do have a thing for the late war swords!! I guess I'm a military collector when it comes to swords. . There's so many different types and variations. I just thought the two I found for being machine made.. They still had a decent Harmon, signed, and arsenal markings on the opposite side, good wrappings and bright blades ( though the fittings on the first sword looks off to me). These blades are much better than some of later war machined blades from 43-45 that I've seen. And sadly most swords that I have found either was given to the kids to chop wood with, someone tryed to sharpen and put grind marks all over the blade or are super rusted. I do have a thing for machine blades as they did just as well on the front lines and served there owners well. But then again I do recognize I'm still new to this and have much to learn. In the mean time I'll just keep studying and learning!

Thank you for all your help!!

Dominic.

[Grey Doffin]

Jim Dawson's book is great on the subject but make sure you get the later Cyclopedia Edition, not the earlier.

Grey

[Reddawn27]

So even though I let these go, I did recive a few additional photos that kinda made me glade i passed them by... but it did raise a few questions with me as well. Being new to collecting swords, closer pic has me doubting parts on these swords. The first sword with the metal saya the fitting look like solid copper. When i look at higher end swords the fittings around the Tsuba are almost aways painted as seen here on Ohmora's site http://ohmura-study.net/906.htmlThis has lead to belive that the first sword was tampered with and has had the fitting ether stripped and polished by the previouse owner or the fitting my be after market fakes??? Let me know what you guys think so I can hone in my knowledge!!

[hxv]

Dominic,

 

It could be that they have been "cleaned and restored" by people who don't know any better.  Often times, the lacquer/paint wears off in the 70+ years of existence. In this case, I think it's probably the former.  The fittings look original, not cheap fakes, though.

 

Hoanh

[Reddawn27]

As for the second sword.. Is this what is considered an improper mount?? What makes a mount improper? Whould this be a late war blade? Thus the reason for the lower quality? If it is a late war blade why does some late war blades like the type 44 guntos and the wooden NCO blades look better?? Wouldnt quality had become even worse than this? Lastly with the second blade.. if it is late war .. why would the leather be still in ok condition? Also i see that the handle had an improper tassle ring but the Kashira < end cap? Looks like it was once painted red and looks like there missing the Cherry blossom.. is this normal with late war blades? Also the sayas latch button looks weird.. is this just more evidence of late war quality or something someone has done? Thank you guys for the teaching me!! I cant wait to get my book lol.

[Bruce Pennington]

So even though I let these go, I did recive a few additional photos that kinda made me glade i passed them by... but it did raise a few questions with me as well. Being new to collecting swords, closer pic has me doubting parts on these swords. The first sword with the metal saya the fitting look like solid copper. When i look at higher end swords the fittings around the Tsuba are almost aways painted as seen here on Ohmora's site http://ohmura-study.net/906.htmlThis has lead to belive that the first sword was tampered with and has had the fitting ether stripped and polished by the previouse owner or the fitting my be after market fakes??? Let me know what you guys think so I can hone in my knowledge!!

Dominic, I agree with Hoanh, the parts look legit, but someone has spray painted them with copper paint (easily stripped with acetone without harming the parts)

 

The leather saya looks legit, too, but the fastener w/snap looks cheaply made - maybe a field repair? The kabuto-gane looks cheaply made too. I've been reading that some swords and/or koshirae were being made by occupied lands, like Burma, Phillipines, etc. Just an idea, maybe this one has koshirae picked up on location by the troop carrying it. The blade looks great!

[Reddawn27]

Hmmm I never really thought of Japanese Guntos being made in occupied countries by the Japanese.. Or was it only the fittings and parts for repairs? Also I bought my Jim Dawson's book!!!!! Thank you guys for all the advice!

Dominic