Fun With My Late War Nco Gunto

[Bruce Pennington]

I've had this late war Type 95 that I really enjoy. Originally I thought the arsenal stamp on the blade was Nagoya, but I zoomed in on it tonight, and learned that it's a Seki stamp (which is still technically a Nagoya Arsenal factory). But what was really interesting, is I noticed TINY marks on the top edge of the nakago. Zooming in, they look like 6 (roku) multiple times. Never seen assembly stamps on NCO swords! I've learned on another site that they are really "large" kanji, not number 6:

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi Bruce.,

 

I don't think the kana on the top edge of the nakago are four strokes:  六

 

They look more like three strokes: 大

 

That could be read as "Grade 1"

 

Discuss......  

[Shamsy]

I can't say I've ever taken the handles off to look. How interesting! None of the references have any nakago pictures... This could be common or rare. The next three models all commonly have second class acceptance stamps but these are on the blades and saya.

[Stegel]

Thanks BP and Malcolm, very interesting.

Like you Shamsy, i've never taken one apart to look either.

[Bruce Pennington]

Sorry, but didn't realize that I hadn't kept this post updated. Got some clarity on another site: the kanji is the center character of the Seki stamp. Still no idea WHY the Seki stamp was put on the upper edge of this NCO gunto:

 

 

"--Guy

Kinda like the middle 关 of the 関 but didn't stamp clear enough"

 

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=848373

[Shamsy]

Hi Bruce,

 

I'm tempted to take mine off but won't. Nearly all the paint on the screw is intact and I'd prefer it to stay that way. Perhaps if I find a cheaper example I'll take it apart. Mine has the scarce thicker tsuba but is also a Seki sword.

[Shamsy]

Hi Bruce,

 

Sorry to drag up an older thread, but do you per chance have a photo of the whole nakago from the side?

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Bruce,

Sorry to drag up an older thread, but do you per chance have a photo of the whole nakago from the side?

Sure, Steve, here's both sides and one after I cleaned it (please don't hate me! I clean all my gunto, but keep pics for proof of condition when I get them).

[SwordGuyJoe]

:-0

[Shamsy]

Sure, Steve, here's both sides and one after I cleaned it (please don't hate me! I clean all my gunto, but keep pics for proof of condition when I get them).

Looks like that was mostly active surface rust, not like you got out the old wire brush or belt sander I clean mine with a lot of oil and cotton patches, though I've never removed a handle. Each to their own, I think the NCOs nakago looks good after the tidy.

 

Thanks for posting, I thought that's about what it'd look like, but having never actually seen one apart, who would know?

[IJASWORDS]

Hi Bruce and Shamsy, one of the attractive features about the NCO swords is that they are rarely disassembled, as no one is looking for hidden treasure blades. They are usually also not attacked by amateur polishers looking for any HAMON or features in the blade. From my point of view, an as is, patinated NCO is more desirable. OK, stabilize active rust with oil, that's called preservation.

In my experience collecting forged GUNTOS, nearly 100% have been disassembled, probably half those have been reassembled in the wrong order, and God forbid some have been assembled using mixed components that were never on the original sword. Its pretty easy, knock out the peg and any thing goes!!!

A good honest original unassembled, unrestored NCO certainly has its attraction.

I actually get angry when I see a GUNTO that has been tarted up to "improve" its looks or saleability.

Like putting lipstick on DaVincis Mona Lisa. Neil.

[Shamsy]

I pretty much blanket agree Neil, leave these things as they are and don't mix it around! I don't feel it adds to the swords in any way and would prefer a sword I know is 100% as it was after the war than one that has been swapped out with pristine parts. As you rightly observe, it's terribly easy to do this with gunto but a darn sight harder on NCO. The screws are a lot harder to remove, there is the risk of damaging parts, creating the dreaded 'rattle' and frankly you can't really tart the 95's. That just makes it obvious that it is put together, like the ones selling recently with gunto blades crammed into newly cast handles. There is little opportunity to try and 'create' a new model, which is such a blessing. I just love the NCOs and nothing beats a good clean example with a nice patina.

[Grimmdarkspire]

On 11/29/2016 at 5:52 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Sure, Steve, here's both sides and one after I cleaned it (please don't hate me! I clean all my gunto, but keep pics for proof of condition when I get them).

Bruce, I also take the time to clean all of my Type 95 Guntos. While there may be differing views on the impact cleaning has on their historical value, I hold a personal perspective that justifies my action.

 

I would really appreciate your help in identifying a stamp on my Type 95 variation #5. It seems to be stamped with 'SEKI', but I'm not entirely sure. Additionally, I've noticed that the stamp on the back of the NAKAGO looks different, which I find quite odd. Could you share your thoughts on this?

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Seth!

 

Those are tough ones, as they are likely not fully/cleanly struck.  I suspect the one by the numbers and the top one on the nakago mune is the Clause 2 stamp, but it is much smaller than any I've seen before:

 

On the mune, I'd say the Class 2 and below it, a very partially struck Seki stamp. Pardn my poor photo-shopping:

 

[Grimmdarkspire]

7 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Hi Seth!

 

Those are tough ones, as they are likely not fully/cleanly struck.  I suspect the one by the numbers and the top one on the nakago mune is the Clause 2 stamp, but it is much smaller than any I've seen before:

 

On the mune, I'd say the Class 2 and below it, a very partially struck Seki stamp. Pardn my poor photo-shopping:

 

Haha you’re fine. And thank you for your thoughts, “clause 2” stamp? What is that? I’m sure I misunderstood. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Check this out: Clause 2 discussion.  Short version:

"Nick Komiya in his Rinji Seishiki to Daiyou Seishiki Weapons Specs thread has uncovered specific documents detailing the conversion of this Clause 2 stamp to mean "Article 2 of this regulation defined Daiyo-Seishiki-Heiki as “weapons in specifications employing substitute materials in its component(s) or redesigned to conserve materials" or more succinctly "Substitute-Spec Weapons".

 

Late war mil spec changes allowed non-standard materials and non-standard production in many weapons, including swords.  The circled 2 originally would indicate the weapon could not be used for combat and should only be used in training.  But the late-war reg change also changed the use of the stamp.

[BANGBANGSAN]

19 hours ago, Grimmdarkspire said:

Bruce, I also take the time to clean all of my Type 95 Guntos. While there may be differing views on the impact cleaning has on their historical value, I hold a personal perspective that justifies my action.

 

I would really appreciate your help in identifying a stamp on my Type 95 variation #5. It seems to be stamped with 'SEKI', but I'm not entirely sure. Additionally, I've noticed that the stamp on the back of the NAKAGO looks different, which I find quite odd. Could you share your thoughts on this?

 

 

The mark on the left of the number "2" is "関" (Seki). The wooden-handled Type 95 were using the "名" (Na) mark before the 205xxx serial number.

 

 

[Grimmdarkspire]

On 11/27/2024 at 5:05 AM, BANGBANGSAN said:

The mark on the left of the number "2" is "関" (Seki). The wooden-handled Type 95 were using the "名" (Na) mark before the 205xxx serial number.

 

 

Thank you so much for your kindness. I was aware that it was a 'seki' stamp, but the 'clause 2' part had me puzzled. I really appreciate both of your immense help. Even after 23 years of learning about NCO Gunto, I'm still discovering new things, and 'clause 2' was one of them.. 

[Grimmdarkspire]

On 11/26/2024 at 11:22 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Check this out: Clause 2 discussion.  Short version:

"Nick Komiya in his Rinji Seishiki to Daiyou Seishiki Weapons Specs thread has uncovered specific documents detailing the conversion of this Clause 2 stamp to mean "Article 2 of this regulation defined Daiyo-Seishiki-Heiki as “weapons in specifications employing substitute materials in its component(s) or redesigned to conserve materials" or more succinctly "Substitute-Spec Weapons".

 

Late war mil spec changes allowed non-standard materials and non-standard production in many weapons, including swords.  The circled 2 originally would indicate the weapon could not be used for combat and should only be used in training.  But the late-war reg change also changed the use of the stamp.

I really appreciate you sharing this information; it's been very helpful. I've noticed that the Tsuka on my item is deteriorating rapidly since I purchased it, and I'm concerned about its previous storage conditions. Additionally, both screws in the Tsuka handle are broken. Could you offer any advice on where I might get the Tsuka restored? Also, do you know where I can find replacement Mekugi screws?
 

[John C]

4 hours ago, Grimmdarkspire said:

where I can find replacement Mekugi screws

These are a bit like hens teeth. They're out there, but you'll pay up for them. You may want to buy replacement copies for now until you come across a reasonably priced real one. You could also use a bamboo mekugi in the mean time.

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

You can try posting in the "Wanted to Buy" forum.

 

Also, Don Schlickman makes perfect replica parts, including screws.  Pm me, if you want his number.