I Have A Chance To Buy These 2 Swords..

[geronimo95]

Firstly Thank you for welcoming me to your community. I'm a long time lurker of Japanese swoprds but have never bought one until now because I'm worried about fakes. I've got a chance here but I don't want to make a mistake

 

Please help me

Sword 1

 

[geronimo95]

and of course sword 2

Thank you very much. I hope these swords are legit and I hope to collect more and learn more

Jeremy

[Nihonto Chicken]

Fake.  There are numerous faults that flash like neon signs as towhy this sword is not Japanese.  Buy and read some books on nihonto before you look to buy blades, it will be more educational and cheaper in the end.

[Grey Doffin]

I agree.  Buy books and study hard.  This is an obvious fake.  The more you know before you buy a sword the better job you'll do at it; at your current level of knowledge you are very likely to waste your money.

Grey

[SwordGuyJoe]

And to add, GREAT job asking before pulling the trigger. We see a lot of, "How did I do?" Posts after the deal is done. Buy books, study, ask questions, and look at the dozens of sites on the commercial links section to see what a real Japanese sword is supposed to look like.

[Jean]

Jeremy,

 

Congratulations for being the first newbie inquiring before buying

[Brian]

Not the first

But these are REALLY bad. Nothing on them looks authentic, so a little bit of study here will take you a long way.

[Alex A]

And to add, GREAT job asking before pulling the trigger. We see a lot of, "How did I do?" Posts after the deal is done. Buy books, study, ask questions, and look at the dozens of sites on the commercial links section to see what a real Japanese sword is supposed to look like.

 

Pulling the trigger, funny

[geronimo95]

Thank you all for your contribution to my education and for helping me avoid a financial debacle.

 

Knowing these are fake I took another good look at this pics and this is what I saw

1) low quality castings

2) is that acid etching on the blades?

3) The engraving on the tangs looks like it was ground out with the rotary tool rather than stamped out with a chisel

 

how am i doing so far?

[Nihonto Chicken]

Starting from the top,

1. The tsuka wrap is wrong, both in style and material, and the same color is questionable (usually natural white or else lacquered black).

2. The kashira is a crude casting.

3. (Pass on the out of focus mei, but it looks funny.)

4. The hada looks like damascus, quite overblown and non-Japanese in character.

5. The hamon is dead and lifeless, quite the opposite of true nihonto.

6. The habaki is crudely carved in a questionable pattern.

7. The seppa and tsuba are crude castings.

8. The fuchi is a crude casting.

9. The kissaki shape is wrong, wrong, wrong!!!  Correct is always curved, never a straight wedge shape.

10. The carving on the blade is crude.

 

I'm sure others can point out more deficiencies.  Said many times before, the first few hundred dollars you spend on nihonto should be for books.  For a person who does not have the time or interest, but still just "has to have" a real nihonto, the only viable alternative is to find a knowledgeable collector who will guide him or obtain a blade for him, or else put himself into the hands of a reputable dealer, but this is still likely to be a four figure start.  And without decent knowledge, proper care of the sword is in doubt (not to mention proper appreciation).  Still better to drop a few hundred on books and "knowledge up" first.  Best of fortune in your endeavor.

[Greg F]

Very good points Rick, especially that with out decent knowledge the proper care and proper appreciation is in doubt. Not to mention handling safety too. Patience and thirst for knowledge is very necessary imho for anyone interested in becoming a Nihonto colector. Ive found that books are an important part of my collection that I love building. If a new colector had say $4000 for their 1st sword I think it would be wise to buy aprox $1000 of books and read them while looking around at whats available before they spend the rest on a blade. That would take a whole lot of patience for me as Im a slow reader. All the best.

 

Greg

[Heringsdorf]

Oh my, these are awful, garbage Chinese fakes.

Not one thing good about these. Everything is wrong and very low quality.

 

If you can't identify that yourself you shouldn't buy any swords at your current level of knowledge.

Instead buy lots of good books and learn. Like that these swords would be completely obvious to you to be low end Chinese fakes.

[Andi B.]

Hello,
it's very good that you asked before purchase!

 

One question:

 

Would you buy this item, if you are looking for a real Ferrari?  - Why not?

 

Because you see and simply know it is a fake!

And that because you have seen real Ferraris at least on TV, in magazines, on the street or at friends...no need to have driven one...

 

And that's the same with Japanese Swords!

If you learn a bit, it should be easy for your to identify such ugly fakes.

 

# # #

Actually there are two challenges for beginners:

1) How to distinguish fake from real blades and if you can manage this
2) How to distinguish poor real blades from good real blades

General rule: Simply don't touch any suspicious item!
=> If YOU can't recognise whether a blade is legit or not at the moment - don't buy it!
=> Try to resist in buying a blade only because it might be a "Japanese sword" but without knowing the special features of a real Nihonto!


Regarding point 1)

How to distinguish fake from real blades
If hada or hamon look odd, fittings are badly cast or ugly carvings are on the blades surface etc. you will not make a mistake by not buying it!
-> It's most probably a fake and not an authentic piece (99%).
-> And if it's really an original Nihonto or fitting (1%), it's still ugly and you will regret your purchase most probably!

=> Try to get in touch with authentic Japanese swords in good conditions (at least by pictures and books).  When you have seen some real ones you surely will be able to identify such fakes soon.
=> Try to buy the best you can affort. One fine blade is better than three poor ones.
 

I didn't bought any fake but I have some unpolished low grade very cheap wakizashi blades (which were cheaper than fakes therefore I don't regret the purchase!).
They might become nice after polishing but a professional polish is probably too expensive in relation to the final value.
So even if you own a real Samurai sword, it is not automatically satisfying you for a long time...

 

 

Regarding point 2)

How to distinguish poor real blades from good real blades
An advice I learned from M. Hagenbusch (when you have left behind the fake issue and you are already in the Nihonto field) is:

If you have the chance, try to see high class swords and fittings only.

The more top blades you see the more you learn about Nihonto and the more you don't want to own a low quality (or even fake) sword. Mainly because they will no longer appeal you.

But that's a long process of learning and experience...

"It is quite essential to to look at as many good blades as possible, and to study their classification and learn the special expressions used in sword terminology. It absolutely does not help to look at lots of Japanese cold steel, which may be badly polished or not polished at all, and to think that seeing quantities of such swords can teach one the essentials of the Japanese sword.
...
Nevertheless if one is truly interested in the "ART-SWORD" it is advisable not to invest time and effort in low level blades. If there is a real interest in the Japanese sword, there are only two ways to train the eyes and increase one's knowledge :

First, look at good swords under good guidance; and secondly study the literature intensively."

I hope this helps a little!

[geronimo95]

Thanks for fantastic advice. The guy selling the swords told me that he was given these swords back in the 80s buy the wife of a deceased friend of his who was  a collector

 

uh huh

i thanked him for the pictures and told him that based on features seen in the photos I wouldn't be buying the swords.