Mei Translation - Help Needed

[Lars]

Hi,

 

I'm considering buying a sword from an antiques shop. Unfortunately they are some 850 kilometers away, so I haven't been able to see the sword with my own eyes and they aren't exactly forthcoming with details other than that they believe it is a 18th century sword. (It is a reputable shop though, but they don't specialize in Japanese weaponry.) As I am a novice myself this could prove to be a learning experience in more ways than one.

 

The dealer has not translated the mei but has provided some photos. (The photo of the blade isn't very good, but I'm attaching it anyway in addition to a shot of the mei.) I have given translation a try myself and my best guess is that the mei reads 大坂丹波守吉道 - Osaka Tanba (no) Kami Yoshimichi. (Apparently Osaka can be written 大坂 but 大阪 is more common?) According to info I have been able to find online there were 11 generations (circa 1634 to 1853) of swordsmiths in Yamashiro that signed with the mei Tanba (no) Kami Yoshimichi. That they normally wrote Tanba in the shape of a boat's sail ties in nicely with the mei on the attached photo. There were two main branches of this school, one in Kyoto and the other in Osaka. The way Kami is written (the "dot stroke" pointing downwards) leads me to believe that the mei could have been written by an Osaka smith.

 

As my real-life experience of appraising nihonto is virtually non-existent I might very well be completely on the wrong track here. In addition to that I haven't been able to find any references to mei that actually read Osaka Tanba (no) Kami Yoshimichi - only Mishina Tanba (no) Kami Yoshimichi or Kyoto Tanba (no) Kami Yoshimichi. I would value any opinions you guys have.

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

Lars

 

[ROKUJURO]

Lars,

welcome to the board!

The seller did not really supply a wealth of informations on the sword. I think, this will not be sufficient to prevent a possible deception. Don't buy a signature, buy the sword! If the price is not very very low, there will remain a risk as TAMBA no KAMI YOSHIMICHI is one of the very often copied signatures. As you will read here on the NMB, the signature has to confirm the smith's specific features which you should find in the blade.

In this case, the MEI may read YAMATO no KAMI YOSHIMICHI (see    http://www.nihontocraft.com/Yamato_Yoshimichi.html   for comparison).

[Shugyosha]

Hi Lars,

 

I think that you have the translation of the tang correct. From wikipedia:

 

The name is now written 大阪 in kanji, but it was written 大坂 until 1870, when the partisans for the Meiji Restoration changed it, apparently to avoid the second kanji being misinterpreted as 士反, meaning "samurai rebellion". The older kanji is still in very limited use, usually in historical contexts, but in Japanese the kanji 阪—pronounced han when standing alone—now refers exclusively to Osaka City or Osaka Prefecture.

 

That said, I have my reservations about the authenticity of the signature as (albeit with a quick internet search and a look at Sesko's Swordsmith's of Japan) I can't find a reference to any of the generations adding the "Osaka" to their mei, though someone else might come up with something different.

 

Best,

John 

[Lars]

Thanks for your help and advice!

 

There is no set price for the sword, but I would expect having to pay somewhere around EUR 1100. However, I'm a bit put off by the circumstance that it is likely gimei and the dealer didn't even think to mention the possibility, though I wholeheartedly agree that one should be buying the sword and not the mei. I think I will stay away from this one due to the insufficient information provided and the lack of detailed photos and just regard it as a good mei translation exercise for me.

 

Lars

 

[ROKUJURO]

Lars,

in many cases you can not rely on the dealer's knowledge and information, so you will have to know what you buy. Here at the NMB you will always find help in evaluating Japanese blades and TOSOGU (as far as possible from photos) from the many experts (sadly, I am not one of them). You can trust in the opinions and form your own, together with some good books.

All the best!

[Ed]

I looked as well and can find no reference to Osaka being included in the mei of Yoshimichi.  As you stated in your original post the stroke in Kami usually signifies Kyoto or Osaka.

 

But like John, simply because we haven't seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. This one may be the one, who knows ?  Only a trip to shinsa will yield a relatively safe opinion.  

 

  Quote

 

 

 the signature has to confirm the smith's specific features which you should find in the blade.

While this is good basic beginners advise, "should" would be a better choice of wording than "Has to".  

 

There are many exceptions to this rule.  Smith's did on occasion make swords outside their usual or expected styles.

 

The only thing absolute, is there is no absolute !

 

I think there are other reasons to avoid this blade aside from the mei. The one photo of the blade is poor quality, but it doesn't seem to show much of a polish or any activity. I realize that it could be only the photo, but If this the case then what could you learn from it ?  Nothing to see, nothing to learn.