Unrecognized Unusual Wakizashi- Help Needed

[Pika007]

I recently received a request to try help recognizing a certain wakizashi, or at least try to dig up from details.

Apparently, aside from the item being already in germany during the 1930's, there isn't much information.

 

Here are the pictures and what i can gather from it (i took them, and handled the item personally)

 

Gallery of closeups, nakago, and the different parts:

http://imgur.com/a/55AtK

 

 

Seems like a shinshinto, big kissaki (though i'm not sure if this should be called an o-kissaki, probably not long enough)

Suguha hamon, nakago seems ubu, mumei.

I'd date the mounts (both by style and condition) to very late edo period, tsuba doesn't seem to fit with the rest and might be from a later time, the kozuka seems like someone juts shoved it in there, is a completely wrong size, and probably not related at all to the whole set.

 

Unfortunately, there is evidence of usage of sand paper quite long ago (rust has already settled on the scratches), and polishing paste not long ago.

Inspection under a magnifying glass didn't reveal any hagire, karasu-guchi or shinae, surprisingly aside from the bad surface condition (rust doesn't seem deep.) the blade looks like it's in very good condition.

 

 

If anyone can pour more light on this, or point some mistakes i made in my evaluation (these are just my thoughts- i did not give them out as an advice or something) i'd be glad to receive any help, and every comment is much appreciated.

 

[Ron STL]

Definitely O-gissaki, possibly the end of a much larger O-suriage daito. Ron STL

[Brian]

Looks promising. At a decent price, I would be tempted to gamble.

[Guido]

..., possibly the end of a much larger O-suriage daito.

 

What makes you think that? This type of wakizashi isn't that uncommon, attached is a photo of an ubu zaimei Anonji Masayuki wakizashi I used to own.

[Alex A]

Dotanuki wakizashi with long kissaki on Aoi   http://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-kyusyu-higo-dotanuki-uemon

[Pika007]

I tend to agree with Guido-

When i received the picture you can see with the white background i thought it has to be a shortened blade, it's very wide and a bit thick.

But after seeing the nakago, i really don't think it was, can't see any signs of it being shortened. 

 

Brian- what would you say is a decent price? the owner wants to get rid of it, for 300-350$ish. 

The fact that it comes with full koshirae in decent condition is already worth it i think, i'm tempted to get it myself and send it to get a new polish.

[Geraint]

Dear Ofek.

 

I think I would be reaching for my wallet on this one.  

 

All the best.

[Jean]

Ofek,

 

It's a fair price, so jump at 300$.

[Mark]

RE: Ubu vs. suriage.....look at the temper at the machi....  what does it do?  if it turns down to the edge it is ubu or retempered, if t appears to continue onto the nakago it may be shortened (still could be ubu or just machiokuri a little)... hard to see in the pictures but it appears to turn down and end at the machi

[Pika007]

I also think it ends at the machi- but it's harder to see there, unfortunately. The clearer parts are on the blade itself.

Going to upload a full-res picture soon and link, i'd  like your opinions as well before making a decision. It's probably going to be a while before i'll send it to get a new polish (and of course, trying to get as many details on it as i can to see if it's even worth sending)

 

EDIT-

Direct link to high-resolution picture:

http://i.imgur.com/Td5wlDD.jpg

 

Looks like the hamon goes off a tiny bit after the machi. I highly doubt this was shortened.

[Brian]

It doesn't matter. At $300...jump at it. Or pass it on to me. 

[Pika007]

Oh, it isn't a factor, i'll be getting it anyway. I'm just curious to get more details and crack where this might have come from originally, in the worst case that i decide i'm not sending it for a re-polish i'll pass it to one of the other members here (and for an equally good price, of course!)

Hopefully i'll even find more info by then

[J Reid]

The blade seems to be in healthy shape. Definitely worth a polish. Nakago condition says late shinshinto- or more likely, early gendai. Probably made around the time of export to Germany.. 1920's-30's? The tsuba, kozuka, Kogatana, Fuchi-gashira, ribbed saya, and menuki could all be sold separately to recover your investment twice over. Or sell koshirae as a whole. Based on what I can see.. Every part in that package has value. Any way you cut it, you're winning.

[Greg F]

Good score Ofec, If you definitely get it I think it deserves a polish.

Guido that looks like a nice wakizashi. All the best.

 

Greg

[Mark]

I would buy it, study it, resell it at a profit and put the funds toward your next better sword. If you polish it properly you will end up with more in it than it is worth. So if you like it and are going to keep it long term polish it, if it is for resale sell it as is.

[Pika007]

PLOT TWIST!

the original owner decided to send it to get polished after i told him of the option, he thinks it'll be worth a bajillion kajillion dollars once it's back to presentable condition.

I advised against polishing for sale purposes but he won't listen.

oh well, at least i can supply kunitaro-san with some work and support a member. Will update once this tale unfolds further.

[Brian]

Hmmmm

$1000 wakizashi. Spend $2000 on polishing it.

Afterwards, it is worth $2500 maybe.

Oh well, at least it is great for the sword, and I think it is going to look wonderful in polish. Love to see pics afterwards, and like you say....a polisher gets supported.

[Pika007]

2000$? correct me if i'm wrong, a 47cm-ish blade shouldn't pass the 1200$ mark if i'm up to date on the prices....

either way, i sent kunitaro a PM, and we'll see where this goes.

[Kronos]

Including shirasaya and habaki $2000 and up depending on the polisher.

[Grey Doffin]

And postage both ways and licensing in Japan.

Grey

[Brian]

Yep. Habaki, shirasaya, postage, polishing, registration.

[Jean]

+Handling, agent...The owner after ruining himself shall be stuck with it. Nobody is going to pay such price for a wakizashi. There are hundreds available in full polish for a lesser value, some papered....

 

Here is a lovely one:

http://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-noshu-seki-ju-kanefusa

[Shugyosha]

...and a tsunagi to keep the koshirae together??

[Kronos]

Suffice to say wakizashi aren't worth getting polished unfortunately unless they meet certain criteria such as famous names, cut down tachi from kamakura and kodachi or you can see enough activities to know it's a fantastic blade that will be attributed to a good smith. If not you'd have to get it for peanuts and/or it being in excellent koshirae.

 

As an example I have one that is most likely oei that was very cheap but I'm being cautious and getting a window done as it could still be a net loss.

[Ron STL]

It always bothers me to see quality antique blades like this looked at as making a profit. If the "quality" is there then we should "at times, at least" look not at profit but as preserving a fine old samurai era sword. Of course one could go broke trying to preserve every sword, but sometimes it's worth it. Idealistic? Yes, but worth considering if one wants to keep a sword and appreciate it. Just something to think about. Ron STL

[Jean]

Fully agreed Ron.

[Pika007]

bump from the abyss-

Unfortunately, this tale has a sad ending. Hearing the costs and required time of a polish, the owner decided to skimp on it, and had some amateur use a sanding/buffing wheel to polish it.

Wakizashi is currently in a mirror polish, no hamon visible, yokote erased out of existence, geometry utterly ruined. 

Don't be surprised if this pops up on ebay soon for 1500$+, 

 

As said here before, some people look at good craftsmanship only as a way to turn a quick dime. I shouldn't have mentioned the option to polish, and thrown out a higher offer to save this one from destruction. 

[SwordGuyJoe]

That's heartbreaking.

[Greg F]

Thats worse than painting a ferrari with house paint!

 

Greg

[dominnimod]

Unfortunately,there are people who doesn't respect antiques and only care about money,in this case,he will get a well deserved loss,the waki however...