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Swordlook

Posted
Posted

First I would like to thank everyone for all the help! It has been very educational thus far.

 

When researching swords I often read things like, so and so is one of the top ranked smiths of the....

 

I know Fujishiro is one of the most used sources for smith rankings but I was wondering if anyone had or could possibly point me in the direction of a short list of the best or most sought after smiths from each period?

 

For example I have read that, Suishinshi Masahide, Taikei Naotane, Kiyomaro and Sa Yukihide are the top Shinshinto smiths. Does anyone have a list for the top in each period? Whether it be the top three or top ten.

 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Ken

SwordGuyJoe Grand Master

SwordGuyJoe

Posted
Posted

Good question!

 

Here is one of my go-to's when looking up war era smith's: http://www.jp-sword.com/files/seki/gendaito.html

 

Her's another good one from the early war period: http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/rank.htm

 

Now - those will only get you started, the question is easier answered if you would let us know what you like? That would help us point you in the more right direction.

 

My favorite is the Kasama Shigetsugu mon, but there are very noteworthy others. Nihonto Denshujo (Kasama was the second teacher there but had a falling out with Kurihara Akihide) had many good smiths came from this school - the Akihira line and Kuniie line are probably the two most notable (both students of Kasama). The yasukuni jinja did very nice work, but not to my taste. The Horii line is exceptional as well. The minatogawa smiths are good but since much of their work went to the navy (and many naval vessels were lost) their work is rare, highly sought after and therefore expensive (cost is greater than value in my opinion). I do like some of the "Mori" smiths too, but never delved much into study. Last but certainly not least - many would argue that they are the best - are the Gassans. Some very exceptional stuff came from these smiths.

 

So if all that doesn't answer your question, I'll give some of my favorite war-time smiths:

Kasama Shigetsugu

Tsukamoto Okimasa

Sakai Shigemasa

Yoshihara Kuniie (Shodai)

Gassan Sadakatsu

Horii Toshihide

Miyairi Akihira

Kawashima Tadayoshi (both Shodai and nidai do very nice work)

Enshin

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Kronos Experienced

Kronos

Posted
Posted

As Joe took Gendaito I guess I'll tackle Koto:

 

 

Aoe Moritsugu 青江守次 (Ninpei 1151–1154 in Bitchu province)
Aoe Tsunetsugu 青江恒次 (Jogen 1207–1211 in Bitchu province)
Awataguchi Hisakuni 粟田口久國 (Kenkyu 1190–1199 in Yamashiro province)
Awataguchi Kunitomo 粟田口國友 (Jogen 1207–1211 in Yamashiro province)
Awataguchi Kunitsuna 粟田口國綱 (Kennin 1201–1204 in Yamashiro province)
Awataguchi Kuniyasu 粟田口國安 (Shoji 1199–1201 in Yamashiro province)
Awataguchi Kuniyoshi 粟田口國吉 (Koan 1278–1288 in Yamashiro province)
Aya (no) Koji Sadatoshi 綾小路定利 (Bun’ei 1264–1275 in Yamashiro province)
Bizen Saburo Kunimune 備前三郎國宗 (Koan 1278–1288 in Bizen province)
Bungo Yukihira 豊後行平 (Genkyu 1204–1206 in Bungo province)
Chikushu Sa 筑州左 (Shohei 1346–1370 in Chikuzen province)
Etchu Norishige 越中則重 (Genkyo 1321–1324 in Etchu province)
Gojo Kanenaga 五条兼永 (Chogen 1028–1037 in Yamashiro province)
Goro Nyudo Masamune 五郎入道正宗 (Karyaku 1326–1329 in Sagami province)
Hatakeda Moriie 畠田守家 (Shogen 1259–1260 in Bizen province)
Hikobei (no) Jo Sukesada 彦兵衛尉祐定 (Entoku 1489–1492 in Bizen province)
Ichimonji Muneyoshi 一文字宗吉 (Jogen 1207–1211 in Bizen province)
Ichimonji Norimune 一文字則宗 (Jogen 1207–1211 in Bizen province)
Ichimonji Sukefusa 一文字助房 (Genryaku 1184–1185 in Bizen province)
Ichimonji Sukemune 一文字助宗 (Jogen 1207–1211 in Bizen province)
Ichimonji Suketsuna 一文字助綱 (Koan 1278–1288 in Sagami province)
Izumi (no) Kami Kanesada 和泉守兼定 (Eisho 1504–1521 in Mino province)
Jiro Kunihiro 次郎國廣 (Gentoku 1329–1331 in Sagami province)
Jiro Saemon (no) Jo Katsumitsu 次郎左衛門尉勝光 (Eisho 1504–1521 in Bizen province)
Ko Aoe Sadatsugu 古青江貞次 (Jogen 1207–1211 in Bitchu province)
Ko Bizen Kanehira 古備前包平 (Eien 987–989 in Bizen province)
Ko Bizen Masatsune 古備前正恒 (Eien 987–989 in Bizen province)
Ko Bizen Nobufusa 古備前信房 (Eien 987–989 in Bizen province)
Ko Bizen Sukehira 古備前助平 (Kanko 1004–1012 in Bizen province)
Ko Bizen Tomonari 古備前友成 (Eien / Katei 987 (1235)–989 (1238) in Bizen province)
Magoroku Shodai Kanemoto 孫六初代兼元 (Kyoroku 1528–1532 in Mino province)
Miike Motozane 三池元真 (Joho 1074–1077 in Chikugo province)
Ohara Sanemori 大原真守 (Eien 987–989 in Hoki province)
Ohara Yasutsuna 大原安綱 (ca. Eien 987–989 in Hoki province)
Osafune Kanemitsu 長船兼光 (Kenmu 1334–1336 in Bizen province)
Osafune Mitsutada 長船光忠 (Ryakunin 1238–1239 in Bizen province)
Osafune Nagamitsu 長船長光 (Koan 1278–1288 in Bizen province)
Osafune Nagayoshi (Chogi) 長船長義 (Joji 1362–1368 in Bizen province)
Rai Kunimitsu 来國光 (Genko 1331–1334 in Yamashiro province)
Rai Kunitsugu 来國次 (Genko 1331–1334 in Yamashiro province)
Rai Kuniyuki 来國行 (Shogen 1259–1260 in Yamashiro province)
Rai Magotaro Kunitoshi 来孫太郎國俊 (Shoan 1299–1302 in Yamashiro province)
Sabei (no) Jo Kagemitsu 左兵衛尉景光 (Gen’o 1319–1321 in Bizen province)
Sanjo Munechika 三条宗近 (Eien 987–989 in Yamashiro province)
Sanjo Yoshiie 三条吉家 (Kanko 1004–1012 in Yamashiro province)
Sengo Muramasa 千子村正 (Taiei 1521–1528 in Ise province)
Shintogo Kunimitsu 新藤五國光 (Showa 1312–1317 in Sagami province)
Shizu Saburo Kaneuji 志津三郎兼氏 (Koei 1342–1345 in Mino province)
Soshu Akihiro 相州秋廣 (Joji 1362–1368 in Sagami province)
Soshu Hiromitsu 相州廣光 (Enbun 1356–1361 in Sagami province)
Soshu Yukimitsu 相州行光 (Kagen 1303–1306 in Sagami province)
Taima Kuniyuki 当麻國行 (Shoo 1288–1293 in Yamato province)
Togenji Sukezane 藤源次助真 (Bun’ei 1264–1275 in Sagami province)
Toshiro Yoshimitsu 藤四郎吉光 (Kagen 1303–1306 in Yamashiro province)
Ukyo (no) Suke Katsumitsu 右京亮勝光 (Bunmei 1469–1487 in Bizen province)
Yoso Saemon (no) Jo Sukesada 与三左衛門尉祐定 (Taiei 1521–1528 in Bizen province)

 

I'll also add Oei Bizen Morimitsu, Yasumitsu and Moromitsu to the list seeing as there's no saijo-saku rated smiths from the Oei era and these were the top three.

Caleb Mok Enthusiast

Caleb Mok

Posted
Posted

...as they say “one never sees a ghost or a Gō,”  ;-)

 

 

Except when you're on Darcy's site, which, if you think about it, indeed does provide a "short list of the best" HAHAHA!  :rotfl:

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Caleb Mok Enthusiast

Caleb Mok

Posted
Posted

But what about Rai Kuniyoshi, Emperor Gotaba, Yamato Amakuni (Kogarasu-maru), Yamato Amakumo, Yamato-no-Orochi (Amano Murakumono Tsurugi), and Susanoono Mikoto (Totsukano Tsurugi)?

(sorry, couldn't resist. Feel free to delete if inappropriate...i see it coming and will not take offence)

w.y.chan Proficient

w.y.chan

Posted
Posted

With regard to Fujishiro and gendaito although no official ranking was issued because the smiths were still alive when he wrote Toko Jiten he did mention a number of gendai smiths of note that he considered exceptional:-

 

Sakurai Masatsugu

Gassan Sadakatsu

Horii Toshihide

Kasama Shigetsugu

Kurihara Akihide

Watanabe Kanenaga

Miyaguchi Toshihiro

Takahashi Sadatsugu

Miyairi Akihira

Gassan Sadamitsu

Shibata Ka

 

 

Wah

BIG Grand Master

BIG

Posted
Posted

Hi top ten shin shinto swordsmith

 

Minamoto Kiyomaro

Suishinshi Masahide

Taikei Naotane

Koyama Munetsugu

Sa Yukihide

Oku Motohira

Hosokawa Masayoshi

Gassan Sadakazu

Hamabe Toshinori

Yokoyama Sukesada

 

Best Regards

dig1982 Enthusiast

dig1982

Posted
Posted

Hi top ten shin shinto swordsmith

Minamoto Kiyomaro

Suishinshi Masahide

Taikei Naotane

Koyama Munetsugu

Sa Yukihide

Oku Motohira

Hosokawa Masayoshi

Gassan Sadakazu

Hamabe Toshinori

Yokoyama Sukesada

Best Regards

Hi where you take this list?

Peter Bleed Veteran

Peter Bleed

Posted
Posted

Dear Friends,

I enter this thread against my better judgement. I assume that New NMB Member Ken opened it with sincere curiosity. Likewise, our friends who researched their books and reported the judgements presented by their preferred Japanese authorities, gave Ken - and the rest of us - some respectable - grist.

I also think it is all right for experienced collectors to share their personal  judgements of who is  "good". Still, I will risk getting myself sent to NMB Solitary Confinement by saying this is all hooey!

Ken, go ahead read the lists and use them to look at books and swords. But don't drink any of the Cool-aid. Use these lists to figure out what SORTS of things sword afficianados go for. What variables are approved.

While doing that you will gain skills in recognizing flaws and just plane unskilled production. That is the process that builds the ability to see and appreciate "good" stuff." Face it, you are NOT going to own any - well many - swords by smiths on James'  koto list. BUT YOU EASILY will come across blades that reflect the work they did. In fact, i think what Ken should have asked for was a list of the highest ranked SCHOOLS of sword making

Finally, I think we all have to be free to make our own assessments of what we LIKE.
We absolutely do NOT need to accept the aesthetic judgments of the "authorities:". Joey Heatherton is not prettier than Cheryl Tiegs just because she sold more calendars.Unless, of course, you are in the calendar business.

Peter

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SwordGuyJoe Grand Master

SwordGuyJoe

Posted
Posted

Agreed Peter. This is why I asked what he liked and also provided schools ranked highly. The list I provided was strictly my favorites based on my taste. Now, if we hear some more details on Ken's preferences, we'd all be able to point in a more tailored direction.

Swordlook Explorer

Swordlook

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I would first like to thank everyone for their detailed responses. I have been able to look up a number of these smiths to review their work.

 

Pete,

 

Thanks for your response and if you have a list of the highest ranked schools please let me know. Also, I agree with following statements that you made...

 

“I assume that New NMB Member Ken opened it with sincere curiosity. Likewise, our friends who researched their books and reported the judgements presented by their preferred Japanese authorities, gave Ken - and the rest of us - some respectable - grist.”.

 

“I also think it is all right for experienced collectors to share their personal judgements of who is "good".”.

 

“Use these lists to figure out what SORTS of things sword afficianados go for. What variables are approved.

While doing that you will gain skills in recognizing flaws and just plane unskilled production. That is the process that builds the ability to see and appreciate "good" stuff.".

 

This is in a nutshell why I ask for a list… For studying purposes.

 

I did also however want a list of high ranking smiths as I have spent considerable time reading archived posts and sale listings on here (as well as other sites) and it does seem to be important to the collector base. A smiths Fujishiro, Toko Taikan or Hawley rating is often listed or discussed. It also was mentioned more than once that some sword consumers are brand conscious. IMHOP it seems that it isn’t “all hooey!” as everyone often talks about it! And therefore I would like to understand it before making purchases. I understand that overall sword quality is probably the largest driving price factor but most beloved is when that’s paired with a high Fujishiro rating.

 

If I may get lost in the (philosophical) weeds for a second here… I believe you are correct that in absolute reality, Fujishiro, Toko Taikan, Hawley, or Joe Blow (not SwordGuyJoe ????) do not matter in the least. Nor does the debate of Joey Heatherton vs Cheryl Tiegs but in everyday life of saving accounts, retirement funds, collage loans, mortgages and the like, it does matter…. I have to know because it may contribute to knowing what my downside risk on investment is. What kind of risk or loss I’m I going to sustain or willing to sustain just because I like it? I can decide that I want to frame-off restore a Pinto and have it painted bright orange because I like it. A full restoration would probably cost around $75K to $100K. The actual going rate for this car is probably going to be way less than half that amount. That’s a big loss just because I like it! My point using your example is, that (in everyday life and financially speaking) Joey Heatherton is prettier than Cheryl Tiegs not because I say so but because a majority of people say so. This may or may not change what I personally like, buy or feel but (IMHOP) to ignore it could be costly.

 

Ken

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