Reason Why Kantei Is Difficult

[Jean]

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumei-yamato-sizu46th-nbthk-juyo-paper

http://www.nihonto.com/rh494.html

 

Have a look act the oshigata, compare hamon and hada

[paulb]

One of the problems with this area is the term has multiple meanings. I had a long correspondence with Tanobe san about this when I was writing the article on the subject. In his words "even the average Japanese student struggles to understand the use of the term" A Yamato Shizu sword can be:

1. A blade made by Kaneuji after he moved from Yamato to Shizu

2. A blade by one of his students still in Yamato (so looks like Tegai work)

3. A blade made by successive generations prior to them moving to Naoe.

Then you have the added complication when all of these become blurred and the balde is just designated as Shizu (which can actually mean something different again)

As a result you do see a lot of variation in blades with this designation.

If it is thought to be by Kaneuji the paper will usually say Shodai Yamato Shizu (according to Tanobe san) If it simply says Yamato Shizu then one of the other groups apply.

I have seen a fair number of Yamato Shizu swords and I think they do vary far more than some other schools in both style and to some extent quality (most have been extremely good just some better that others)

[Shugyosha]

The one at Nihonto.com is obvious enough for me to call Yamato, but would have probably guessed at Hosho had I not seen the attribution. The sword at Aoi art doesn't (to my uneducated eye) have sufficiently obvious Yamato traits for me to even call the province - far too subtle for me.

 

Best,

John

[CSM101]

Just another example for Yamato Shizu.

 

Uwe G.

[Shugyosha]

Another one here: http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/O102148_S827_PUP_E.html

[nagamaki - Franco]

KATANA
Attributed to Shizu

Juyo Token certified by NBTHK

 

http://www.choshuya.co.jp/1/0802/member_frame_sword.htm

[Toryu2020]

This thread should be titled

"Why is kantei so pleasureable?"

 

If you choose to study only Shizu blades look at the wonderful variety, the terrific shapes and quality. I want a "Shizu" channel on my tv!

-t

[paulb]

100% agreement Tom (maybe we should start an appreciation society?)

[Pete Klein]

There is something about Yamato blades which has always attracted me. They seem to have, 'intention' about them.

[Isocyanide]

KATANA

Attributed to Shizu

 

Juyo Token certified by NBTHK

 

http://www.choshuya.co.jp/1/0802/member_frame_sword.htm

 

Man that's an amazing piece of work!

[SAS]

Kantei is difficult while drooling and shaking....

[kunitaro]

I was re-recognised that judging sword with photo/scan are very tricky, by reading the thread of the thread "Yokote ugly"

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/18036-yokote-ugly/?hl=yokote

Even examine in hand could be difficult because of condition of the sword itself and condition of polish.
Especially mumei blade, it could be different attribution with different polish (as we know).

Photos and Scanners,
Sugata can be very tricky depend on the angle how you take photo.
and Scanner could take exact shape, 
IF all of swords are same polish condition and same image process, we will be able to see the differences by comparing images.

However, official kantei-ka are viewing the swords in hand under good light, 
So, it would be difficult to match the judgment by viewing different material between scan image and viewing the sword in hand with light.

Furthermore, we started "C14 radiocarbon dating test" joint research with the Center for chronological research, Nagoya university.

We started with signed and dated undoubtable material to test the AMS system.

Some people did it in the past with mumei blades. I have seen some report of the result,

an osuriage-mumei katana attributed Bizen Kagemitsu TH paper, result of AMS test, is about 400 years old (+-50) that is Azuchimomoyama to early Edo period.

and the second osuriage mumei blade attributed Kane-something, Sue-Seki, Hozon paper, AMS result said that about 700years old. late Kamakura.

another one was, they couldn't have result because, material (carbon) was not enough to get result, they took the material (steel) from Nakago, and only one blade didn't have enough carbon from same amount of steel. This is meaning is that the Nakago is Ubu,,, not osuriage. so, the blade is Ubu, but, remodeled,made it looks like an osuriage blade.

 

It is too early to conclude or jump into this study, because, there is a lot of subject to consider, such as Nanbantetsu, smith made a sword from old broken material, about re-tempered blades, etc, so, it is long way to study, but I think that it is interesting study for 21th century.

However, this is for only the age of the sword, not area/province or school. so, it still need traditional method.

[Kronos]

Don't forget that with c-14 testing charcoal is somewhat difficult to test and highly prone to contamination, whats more it only measures when the tree that provided the carbon was felled, so the repurposing of older trees/iron can also give a much older result.

[b.hennick]

At our next club meeting December 5th we will have a kantei session. Unlike Japan where the individual determines or tries to determine the age, School and smith at our meetings we work in teams to do the kantei. Senior members lead their group through the study of each blade. At the end each group submits their bid (age, School, smith) and the leader explains the the correct smith and what one should have noticed to get to that smith.

[Greg F]

Hello Barry, that sounds like an excelent way to learn and fun.

 

Greg