The Naoe Shizu That Was A Masamune

[Jim P]

Some Soshu for the masses, the Naoe shizu that was a Masamune    well the Honami thought so in the late1950's

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumeiunsigned-attributed-as-naoe-shizu

[Brian]

Wow...now that is a beautiful sword. And a decent starting price too. Wonder where it will end up?

[Jean]

Jim,

 

For godsake, please change your print font, your texts are unreadable.

 

This sword has probably been seen by a great majority as the first thing members do in the morning, after reading NMB new posts, is to connect with Aoi Japan website. I saw this sword three days ago. This Naoe Shizu sword is atypical (otherwise it would not have been attributed to Masamune by Hon'ami). Hada and boshi are atypical.

[Brian]

Jean,

Actually, I only go there when pointed to something by members.

No time for casual browsing nowdays, and I don't like to look at stuff all day that I can't afford to buy if I fall in love with it.

But yes Jim....that font is slightly distracting. Maybe more-so for those antique members who only ever spent their lives with Times New Roman and Arial

[Fuuten]

I saw this blade a few days ago as well. Very nice indeed.

[Jean]

You forgot one thing, Brian, "wearing spectacles" LoL.

 

In fact, most of old timers are browsing Aoi Japan website on a daily basis, you are still too young Brian. But for sure this print font kills my eyes and I confess I generally skip Jim's posts for this reason.

[SwordGuyJoe]

For godsake, please change your print font, your texts are unreadable.

 

Hey now! I for one think he has the prettiest "handwriting" on the board.

[Jean]

Joe,

 

Prettiest handwritting is not "readablest" (neologism)

[Jim P]

Hi Jean, I did not know that the font was unreadable the way I have set up the background for the site its fine for me but forgot it maybe different for others but presto !  for you Arial

[Jamie]

Thanks Joe. I too can read it much better.

What a sword huh!

Soshu swords are just amazing.

[DirkO]

 This Naoe Shizu sword is atypical (otherwise it would not have been attributed to Masamune by Hon'ami). Hada and boshi are atypical.

 

The Hon'ami papers are fake. Doesn't even come near normal Hon'ami Koson papers. However, this can't be blamed on Tsuruta-san, people sometimes regard these papers as being a nice add on, nothing more.

 

 

Compared to real examples:

 

[Jim P]

Hi Jamie, Its one of the better Soshu swords to come up lately and as we were speaking of Soshu last week it’s a good reminder.
Dirk, I can see the difference but as I know little about Hon'ami papers cannot comment  
Brian, I also wonder where it will end up? we will see how much the past plays a part

[Jean]

Jim,

 

Thanks a lot for changing your script font

 

Dirk,

 

I did not even look at the Hon'ami document. These attributions are always subject to suspicion, what matters is the blade and here, I tend to follow Tsuruta san opinion. In any case, As says Jim, it is one of the better Soshu swords to come up lately.

[Markus]

I second Dirk, it can be nice to have a (obviously great by its own) blade that was handed down as Masamune in feudal times, so to speak a blade that initiates chat like "you know, this one I have here was once treasured as Masamune within the XY family." But if already the Hon'ami paper is fake, and everything points towards that, I as a potential buyer would ask Tsuruta san to find out about the pre-origami provenance. So maybe either the origami was later faked to "underline" the provenance, or all the provenance just goes back to the fake paper. Former being ok and origami can be disregarded and left in the drawer, latter not ok (if you consider buying because of the alleged provenance)...

[Jean]

The requested price is the price of a juyo Naoe Shizu one and not one of a presumed Masamune sword. Clearly, the "alleged" Hon'ami paper is not interfering with the price. When re-reading Tsuruta san statement, you will notice that he forget this paper when kanteiing this sword to O Shizu. The alleged Hon'ami kanteisho is to recent to be part of the blade history.

[Alan F]

_{I'd think twice before bidding on this sword. If you want a Juyo Naoe Shizu for a  very reasonable price, then go ahead. The supposed provenance, and reference to Masamune, is for naught. This is nothing more than salesmanship on Tsuruta san's part.  Whether it is based upon the origami that accompanies the sword, or some information that was passed down to Mr. Tsuruta from the previous owner. As Dirk pointed out, the papers supposedly signed by Honami Koson are fake. They are worthless, and any good knowledgeable dealer in Japan would immediately recognise them as such. Mr. Tsuruta knows his market.}

 

_{The price of the sword equates to about $20,500 USD. Mr. Tsuruta collects 20% for commission. That would leave the consignor with about $16,400. Either the consignor is very desperate for immediate cash, or there is something not quite right with this sword. If the former is true, then you might have a nice Naoe Shizu for a good price. But, I would not buy into that business about the previous Masamune attribution.}

 

_{Markus is right. Jean perhaps gives Mr. Tsuruta too much credit?}

 

_Peter 

[Markus]

In a nutshell, and what I tried to allude to: There is a Masamune provenance and there is a Masamune provenance

[Jean]

Peter,

 

I don't give any credit to Tsuruta san, I just say that this sword is not expensive and I have seen Juyo Naoe Shizu selling for higher prices (just google "juyo Naoe Shizu for sale" and you will have an idea of the market price). Furthermore, you perhaps have not noticed that it was awarded the Juyo Status on the 15th session, it is an early Juyo when passing Juyo was very difficult and a lot of collectors are looking for such ones, it is worth a premium.

 

The price the consignor will get is irrelevant. Dealers always take their margin, the sword being on consignment or not.

[Kronos]

Don't forget that it is customary in Japan to consign items rather than sell yourself so I imagine they're used to taking a hit.