Kai-Gunto - Showato?

[FletchSan]

Hi All,

 

I picked up a Kai-Gunto today that is rather nice. It had belonged to the daughter of a WW2 Australian solider that had brought it back after the disarmament of the Japanese islands at the end of the war and was coated in oil then locked in storage ever since. I have no doubts on the provenance and the sword is in original condition and not modified in any way.

 

It does (unfortunately) have a seki stamp on the nagako though the blade and saya are in fantastic condition as it was in the original leather cover. It has a really nice hamon and I swear I see some hada! Interested in some thoughts and also help with translating the smith. I think it is dated 1943 from what I can work out.

 

A few unusual things (to me anyway)...

 

The ito wrap knot is on the side of the Tsuka.

The tassel is a fairly orange brown and the cord is a lot thinner than what I've seen before.

The kissaki is fairly long - is it borderline o-kissaki ?

The seppa has the naval stamp as well as the letters T.E.C

All fittings have the number 43 stamped on them, even the wood underneath the fuchi.

 

thanks,

 

Ben

[Kai-Gunto]

The tassel is not a tassel , but a lock strap. Mounted on the saya ashi and then around the tsuka.

 

[Kai-Gunto]

The Ito knot on the tsuka is normal for kaigunto .

I have one with same koshirae and its stamped 49 on the fuchi and same stamps on seppa.

Its maybe Tokyo Elecktric company or gas. There is a thread somewhere , I try look for it.

It has a nice custom sarute with clasped hands.

 

Nice sword You got there.

[Wim V]

Hello,

 

I think the mei reads "Yoshishige" (良重).  He is listed as a Seki smith on the website of Mr. Jinsoo Kim (see http://www.jp-sword.com/ )

 

A similar inscription was discussed here: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?98344-WW2-Naval-Officer-Katana-signature-and-stamp 

 

I think you are right with the date: Showa 18 nen (1943)

 

Best regards,

[FletchSan]

Thanks Thomas - learn something new everyday. Is the presense of an original lock strap fairly rare?

 

Also thanks Wim, that sword you linked to does have very similar markings, particularly the dashes on the date mei.

 

Thomas - perhaps more a question for you. I do have an opportunity to swap the sword for another that is mentioned here

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/18037-kai-gunto-translation-help/

 

The condition of the sword in this post is far better overall. The blade on the other sword is still pretty clean, though not much of a visible hamon. The condition of the koshirae on the one in this post however is far superior.

The other sword does not have any apparent arsenal stamps that I could see. So would you go for a possible Gendaito with average Koshirae or this one with great condition overall though a seki stamped nagako?

​

cheers,

​

Ben​

[FletchSan]

Ive had a go at working out the painted markings. I can see ..

 

夕四三​ over the signature (something 43?)

入之三​ under the date

 

Any idea what these mean? Looks like everything on this sword including the date is numbered 43

 

Ben

[FletchSan]

The same 3 symbols (夕四三) are also on the inside of the leather saya cover as well.

 

 

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Hi Ben , the "tassel" is a really unusual accessory . In about 40 years of collecting I have seen only one or two of these . The

one that I can recall was on a shin gunto and like yours was attached to the sarute . Like you I had assumed that it was some form of tassel. It is interesting but doesn't add any value to the sword. Thomas if used as lock straps they must have been

frustrating to use and were probably discarded as being impractical . Whilst I can see that it could be used to stop the sword

coming out of the scabbard it looks to me like it would be a messy exercise if you wanted to get your sword out quickly with this " lock strap " in place. Am I right that getting the sword out would be complicated or am I missing something ? I covet a couple of your pieces by the way .

Ian brooks

[Kai-Gunto]

Hi Ben , the "tassel" is a really unusual accessory . In about 40 years of collecting I have seen only one or two of these . Theone that I can recall was on a shin gunto and like yours was attached to the sarute . Like you I had assumed that it was some form of tassel. It is interesting but doesn't add any value to the sword. Thomas if used as lock straps they must have beenfrustrating to use and were probably discarded as being impractical . Whilst I can see that it could be used to stop the swordcoming out of the scabbard it looks to me like it would be a messy exercise if you wanted to get your sword out quickly with this " lock strap " in place. Am I right that getting the sword out would be complicated or am I missing something ? I covet a couple of your pieces by the way .Ian brooks

Hi Ian,

They are rare and I done some study over the time. They are only mounted on swords with push fit.

Heres a period photo of one mounted.

I dont think its a issue to unlock the sword fast, but at that time it wasnt ,who is drawing the sword fastest.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Thanks Thomas that's an interesting photo . I think board member Alan from Sydney has one of these on his Kiyomitsu naval sword . If you read this Al you might perhaps remind me whether the cord is attached to the saya or sarute . Ian Brooks

[Shamsy]

Military Swords of Japan has these cord saya retention loops references, with pictures. Looks like a nice sword. Still a few good ones to find in Aus

[Kai-Gunto]

Military Swords of Japan has these cord saya retention loops references, with pictures. Looks like a nice sword. Still a few good ones to find in Aus

The book from Fuller and Gregory?

[Kai-Gunto]

I have some photo I have "stolen" from the web of kaiguntos with the lock strap. I will post them later.

[FletchSan]

Found this photo that has one that is just tied to the ashi.

 

[Shamsy]

The book from Fuller and Gregory?

Yes, page 56. Upon taking a look (I was going off memory) it's not the exact system here, but a fair representative example of the additional retention employed on these model of sword.

[Kai-Gunto]

Photos of strap.

 

Had once a disscuse with one collector, who said it was a tassel for the navy dirk. I dont believe that.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I don't either Thomas. I think that you have come up with the correct explanation . Ian Brooks

[george trotter]

Over almost 50 years of collecting I have only seen these 3 times, twice on navy swords (attached to the saya ashi ring) and once tied around a navy dirk (also tied to the saya ring).

This is the first time I had heard they were retention knots...makes sense.

Hope this helps,

[Kai-Gunto]

Heres 2 more , one on a civil sword and one on a kaigunto.

[Kai-Gunto]

I think it add some value ,since they are rare and who dosnt want a complete sword

[Kai-Gunto]

The tassel is not a tassel , but a lock strap. Mounted on the saya ashi and then around the tsuka.

This sword was found with the strap ,wrongly mounted. That way it was preserved over time ,in complete length ,the little loop and the slider.

Mr. Trotter , thats not many over 50 years.

 

Does anybody in here know Mike Quigley?