Japanese Flag Translation, Pre Ww2

[lonely panet]

Hi guys I hope you are all well,

 

well here is a really hard to find item, its a rare flag for a type 19 flag sword. I got this from Japan some years ago and have been trying to translate it with F-A luck. its just to hard with the semi cursive script.

 

Im really interested to know whats written, so Im willing to pay for translation. Im happy to donate to the board or pay individuals as its really starting to get the better of me.

 

 

many thanks and regards H

 

[SteveM]

The flag is says "7th Reunion of Kaihō Kai (海鵬会)" and then the rest are names. I have no idea what the Kaihō Kai is.

 

When I put the kanji into a search engine, it spits out this same flag showing up on an auction site in Japan

 http://aucview.aucfan.com/yahoo/h186316657/

 

 

第七回海鵬会総会

だいななかいかいほうかいそうかい

 

Edit: I should add that the word "reunion" doesn't actually appear on the flag. However, since its the 7th (annual?) meeting of this group, I can only assume that it is some kind of veteran's reunion. Also, obviously one cannot discount completely the possibility that the flag is some kind of counterfeit. 

[lonely panet]

wow, scary

 

very simular indeed, well this does raise some questions.

 

well the flag matches all demensions to the mm, that is mentioned in jim dawson book. also the flag is in my opinion ww2 or older.

 

I will post better pics

[SteveM]

I think its the exact same flag. It's got the same stain as yours in the white stripe at about the 11 o'clock position. 

The flag on the auction site is upside down, so that same stain is appearing on the auction flag at about the 5 o'clock position. 

 

(Well, that plus all the signatures are the same...  )

[lonely panet]

yes, your right. exactly the same, im abit annoyed.

iv got some closer photos of the writing, stitching and seams, and have taken some comparison photos of another flag.

 

so heres the next question, have I bought a counterfeit. or is some one copying off a original?

 

[SteveM]

There are a lot of fake flags out there. The market is awash in fake swords and fake flags. What's worse, the copiers are getting better and better at making these things look authentic. Unrealistic war slogans, apparent unfamiliarity with Japanese names and Japanese kanji usage, poor balance, deliberately obscured kanji, all the signatures done by the same hand, etc... all of these things are dead giveaways for fake flags, but the copiers seem to be learning how to cover these tracks. In fact, I would not be surprised if some enterprising copiers lurk on these and other militaria sites to get intelligence on how to make the copies seem more authentic. So, that's the long way of saying I do not know if your flag is authentic or not.

 

Yours doesn't strike me as an obvious fake. However, the "7th Meeting" at the side of the flag makes me think it is not a contemporary WW2 piece either (but, it wouldn't be too long after the war). It's a bit curious that I can't find any other reference to this mysterious Kaihō Kai. There are some other kanji under that bit - I think referring to a location (南浦?） maybe Morita-san can help out. My guess: some sort of post war veteran's relic. C. 1950's or possibly 60's.  

[lonely panet]

this is a very odd/ interesting.

all my flags have been either bought from Japan, or from friends who have had them for 20 years plus.

 

so are there people in Japan faking them, or more coming from china or the US

[SteveM]

The other flag is the sort of flag that I am speaking about above. 

 

Generic patriotic slogan at the top: 武運長久 (Good luck in battle, basically).

Generic name: 加藤進一 (KATO Shin'ichi)

Generic text: 名古屋市中村区西日置 (Nagoya-shi, Nakamura-ku, Nishi Hioki)

 

There is nothing wrong with any of the above. Balance is fine, execution of the kanji is fine, nothing overtly wrong with any of the text or the names. But...its odd that a good luck flag would just have one random guy's name on it and his address. It's (supposedly) a war flag, not a self-addressed stamped letter. Typically you would expect a school or factory or possibly a neighborhood association get together to write their names and perhaps messages of encouragement or patriotic/martial slogans on the flag, and then present the flag to the person going off to war. It's extremely strange to see a flag say the equivalent of, "Good Luck In Battle, John Smith at 21st Maple St." I would avoid it. 

[SteveM]

Fake flags are everywhere. The entry barrier to the fake flag industry is extremely low. Cost of goods are dirt cheap. Skill required to create one is a fraction of a fraction of the skill required to create a credible fake sword. Anybody familiar with kanji with a good coach or with access to good reference material (the internet) can start pumping them out quickly. If you cruise the other militaria sites you will find stories of enterprising Japanese war veterans, and equally enterprising US military men stationed in Japan, churning out fake flags for the souvenir market.

 

So, some of these things raise interesting questions; does a flag that was created in 1946, tarted up to look like it was in battle, qualify as a "war flag"? Does a fake flag that was bought by some gullible US army guy in 1951, and kept in his attic as an heirloom, qualify as a genuine war relic?

 

Like the flag you originally posted - to me its interesting if it was a war veteran's flag. And in a way, its nice that it wasn't stripped from some dead soldier. It's something you could treasure without feeling you had taken something from someone's husband or son. But...it might not be an actual battle flag. So, its a kind of an authenticity question, a value question, a moral question, all wrapped up into one. A bit too heavy for me this Sunday night here in Tokyo.   

[Brian]

When did that auction end, because it might be a very old auction, and you might have ended up with it through whatever means?

[SteveM]

Looks like it ended March 2nd, 2014.

[lonely panet]

I went through my records and I got it in 2013, which month I didn't write down