Cloth and pocket treatment

[Henry Wilson]

I have a burning question. Follow the link:

 

http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/forum/ ... &msgid=125

[remzy]

The way i see it, it is good to the patina to carry your tsuba in a bag because:

1. it isnt in a wooden box with nails.

2. in your pocket it isnt "lose" as it would be in a box, preventing it to rattle.

3. (not so scientifical explaination here) it might prevent active rust from developing due to the friction.

4. you keep your tsuba cossy and warm :3

 

i cannot certifiate any of this, aside from the "bad nails in the wooden box" one!

[Stephen]

most pockets are of cotton and let body oil in, gentle buffing from walking, that's why at many shows you'll see tsuba being rubbed on noses or foreheads.

[remzy]

Stephen! here i thought they were just cuddling with their beloved tsubas!

 

This make sense tho.

[myochin]

Dear Henry,

 

I understand that this was something quite common at the beginning of the 20th century. Collectors would carry a tsuba in an empty pocket. The idea being that the tsuba would be in constant friction with the cloth-lined pocket and therefore, slowly, create a nice (new) patina.

Wether or not this applies to modern fabric I don't know (especially slim-fit jeans!).

I have friends of the older-generation who sometimes still do this.

They also leave the iron tsuba in a fridge for a few days and then either pop it into their pockets or apply a soft fabric (which is time consuming and painful for the arm). The fridge tends to "lift" the rust and help create a patina.

Either way, it's a slow process that should NEVER be speeded up any other way.

 

Paul.

[Marius]

I have a burning question. Follow the link:

 

http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/forum/ ... &msgid=125

 

Henry,

 

I am not an expert, but I have tried this method, so I feel I can voice and opinion here without harming anybody. It seems to be working insofar that the surface of an iron tsuba gets very delicately polished over time (you need to keep in in your pocket for quite some time, that is).

 

Any residue and loose rust will be to a certain extent removed by this treatment. I would, however, be wary of applying this kind of treatment to a tsuba with inlays made of a metal or alloy softer than iron. Here, the nice patina will be removed from the inlay's top parts and you will get shiny surfaces as a result. And this does not look elegant at all.

 

Patina Which develops on iron over time is pretty hard - I have had some success with removing red rust from my katchushi tsubas without damaging the patina. I have used sharp pieces of bone (ivory is said to be good, but I would do absolutely nothing to harm elephants) and I have managed to get rid of most of the rust specks. Everything was done exactly as recommended by Rich Stein, carefully and slowly, that is:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/tsuba/tsubacln.htm

 

You may want to try, but, mind you, do note exaggerate and be careful.

 

Best regards

[Henry Wilson]

That was quick. Thanks all. How long is along time for the pocket treatment? One week, one month, one year.......

 

Also, I have put a tsuba in a cotton cloth bag and then put the bag in my pocket. Would that be suffice?

[Henry Wilson]

Also sekigane will get a bit of a polish too. Would that be bad in any way as is the case with inlay metals?

[Martin]

Hi Henry,

 

I also frequently carry a Tsuba with me that I covered with some soft cloth before.

I use Molton-Cloth (supplied by the baby-industry ;o) ) for both rubbing and carrying and it works fine.

I use to remove the rust before and made the experience that the Tsuba gets a much nicer surface after carrying it for some days (a week or 2).

But what I also suspect is, that some areas where some shiny iron looks through get even more "polished" up.

That would speak against the thesis that the "pocket-treatment" actually builds up (new) patina.

So I actually never carried them with me for more than a few weeks...

 

I could be wrong with my assumptions and would be keen to hear some experience of the "old boys" :D

 

cheers,

[Curran]

Henry,

 

It works to different degrees on iron tsuba. Yes, do not do with tsuba with shakudo plugs, etc. The sekigane will rub to some degree, and most will repatinate.

 

It does work very well, but be very selective which tsubas this helps. Then it takes weeks to months in Levi 501 and being careful never to put anything else in the pocket. But sometimes it works wonders.

 

Just remind the wife to not pat your iron derriere with her rings on. Clunk clunk.

[rkg]

Henry,

 

Ah, the ol' Pocket Polish...

 

This whole subject of polish/patina is very interesting - For example, a lot of the pieces in the Sasano collection were seriously over-cleaned (the sad part being that Sasano himself realized this late in life and had to live with the damage he had done...).

 

Some argue that the original patina on iron pieces can't be replaced once its gone (its a thin layer of all these esoteric compounds formed by whatever the tsubako originally used to patinate), while others think that the patina morphs with time and handling is what brought out stuff like tekkotsu in the first place (though obviously metal patterns were brought out later by acid etch by the tsubako etc.,).

 

I've tried "pocket polishing" iron tsuba in the past, but after looking at good pieces I don't do this anymore - its too easy to overclean, knock off "crud" on the insides of the sukashi that help date the piece, and polish areas that you really don't want polished (sekigane, inlays, the area around the nakago, crevices that shouldn't show wear, etc.,.). IMHO, you're better off spending some "quality time" with your pieces using a cloth for the polish. Less is More... If its got more red rust on it than that, what did you buy it for in the first place

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[Rich S]

Personally, I'm more of a fan of "tsuba fussing" - rubbing lightly

over a fairly long period of time - a sort of tsuba meditation.

I've used cotton, flannel, but mostly now (heresy) I use a

soft piece of chamoise or suede, leather. Seems to me that

the tannins in the leather help impart a nice dark patina to

the iron - but then maybe that's just my imagination.

 

Rich S

[Rich T]

Hi Henry. My take on it is that it is not just the cloth. The cloth of course generates a gentle rubbing motion, and on it's own, may actually clean the metal. But bare metal rusts, there is no stopping that. Add to that the salts and oils from skin and perspiration and we are rusting, rubbing back, oiling, rusting rubbing back, oiling and on and on. I think this is what adds back patina and colour to the iron. It will take a couple of months I imagine. I have performed this on two tsuba and it does work. So does hanging the guards high in a room for a year or two.

 

These days, I have a very soft horse hair brush used by ukiyo-e artists for dusting off any light rust, then I leave them. My general stage in collecting has now got to the point where I do not want anything that wants restoring. I try to go for the better quality right off.

 

All the advice re soft metal.shakudo and over polishing is correct also. And nothing happens overnight. These techniques can take months.

 

Jim Gilbert's linked article below is a great one on cleaning tsuba.

 

cheers mate

 

Richard

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/Cleaning.htm

[Bungo]

all these clothing talks remind me of the fashion week in Milan..........

 

let you all in on a little secret ......white diamond ( Pete may know what I am talking about ).

Grind it down to powder form like uchiko, then hand rub it on iron tsuba ( gently !! ), give you the sutle sheen you soooooo desire.

 

Talked with a few tsuba restorer ( among them, S. Holbrook ), you'd would be surprise how many of them know what I am talking about.

 

White diamond is just a brand name , the Japanese may call it differently but a rose is a rose, regardless of the name..........

p.s. wearing tsuba in the back pocket only works if you go to the Frisco show. ( it protects your patina )

milt the ronin

[Bungo]

Stephen,

 

" most pockets are of cotton and let body oil in "........... use Shout for your laundry :lol:

unless you wear the same pants for months without washing.......... :lol:

 

However, nose oil is a legitimate " treatment", saw those " kanji " in Japanese text .........sort of gross, but then I heard they use rat droppings etc. as part of the secret formula too in patina development.

 

 

milt the ronin

[Rich T]

rat poo, gunpowder, straw, clay and other bits and bobs make up the base of many patina recipes.

 

Its cool, I would like to try it one day

 

Rich

[SSt]

This tsuba in its leather pouch travels in my jacket pocket.

I find the this particular tsuba very tactile, it is my "worry tsuba".

It had its wonderful patina when I acquired it, but no doubt the oils from my hands and the rough side of the leather inside the pouch "help" the patina.

[SSt]

The picture that I uploaded hasn't appeared !

Perhaps this time?