Tensho Charts

[kissakai]

Hi

It's me again!

I bought this tsuba a few days ago and would like to know what the script meant

I've searched the internet without any real success

Not sure of the proper term for this type of calligraphy, sanscript, bonji?

A NMB post directed me to the jssus website but my computer will not show the character but a small box with a cross through it

I suppose it's the usual good luck, long life etc

 

 

Grev UK

[ROKUJURO]

Grev,

it is TENSHO. We had this subject here on NMB a short while ago, if my memory still serves. (https://www.is-hanko.co.jp/shachi/tensho_check.html)

[Gabriel L]

BTW the name of the liturgical language often written using the Devanagari or Siddham writing systems is Sanskrit, not "Sanscript."

[kissakai]

Hi

I've tried on the internet again but not a lot further forward

I've had a look at Sanskrit examples and I don't think that works

The tensho link wasn't in English so I couldn't follow that up but looking at the tensho style seems to fit although I could find no examples of the images posted

Next closest was lesser seal xiaozhuang which may be the forerunner of the tensho seal script but again no examples that compare with my images

Anyone have Mascus's book on seal script which would be a very useful reference?

 

 

Grev UK

[Guido]

Anyone have Mascus's book on seal script which would be a very useful reference?

 

Yes, I own it, and it is quite helpful - if you already have a general idea about how kanji are constructed, and are able to identify radicals.

[kissakai]

Hi Guido

Is there any thing in your book that is like the images I posted?

Otherwise can someone put me out of my misery as it's like having a tsuba that is not complete

I'm sure I've seen something like the three pronged symbol but no idea where

The symbols have a feel of a tsuba I posted about the five sacred Chinese mountains

 

 

Grev UK

[SteveM]

Can you post a picture that shows the whole tsuba, instead of just the close-ups of the kanji bits?

The top right kanji is 音 oto (sound),　bottom right is probably 味 aji (taste)  but without knowing where they sit in relation to the other ones, its hard to say or even guess what the overall message is. 

[Guido]

...　bottom right is probably 味 aji (taste)  ...

 

I think it’s 咊 (attachment A) instead of 味 (attachment B ).

[kissakai]

Hi Steve/Guido

Guido, I think you are right with 咊 (attachment A) and great to see the image you have provided as this is the only image I can understand but I don’t know the meaning

 

Steve, if I assume the top right kanji is 音 oto (sound), but it would help me to see it in seal script.

Images below as requested. As I hope this puts thing in context.

 

I was unsure about buying this one as there didn’t appear to be a mark for the seppa dai but now I have it in hand there is a faint mark and the rim is nice

 

I have a feeling that you can ‘crack’ this one for me

I have a load of Marcus’s book but not the seal one as I didn’t think I need it especially after struggling with is sosho book

 

 

 

 

 

Grev UK

[SteveM]

Try this (its not very different from any other script, although depending upon how fancy/illegible/inscrutible you wish it to be, it can be quite intricate). 

 

Lovely tsuba, by the way.

[ROKUJURO]

Grev,

that is a really nice TSUBA and I understand that you are researching the background!  What are the dimensions? Looks like a big one!

Concerning the TENSHO symbols: I have heard that their form can be individual to an extent, so it can be difficult to identify them.

[kissakai]

Hi
Size: 89 x 87 x 4.2 (body) - 5.3mm (rim)

 

Steve - I can see what you mean about the characters
I'll get my kanji book out and see if I can find them although I've seen nothing like the first and last characters

 

Grev UK

[SteveM]

Hello Grev,

 

If you look on the bottom of the page at the link below, you will find tensho renderings of kanji used in Japanese. It may be of some help/interest to you. 

 

The three remaining ones are a bit enigmatic. I'm wondering if they haven't lost some of the inlay bits that would make the kanji complete. For example, the kanji you've identified as being in the middle of the front of the tsuba looks like it might be missing the inlay from the top section. I've taken that photo and added a red line to show you what I mean. (It still doesn't help me identify what kanji it is, but maybe it will jog something loose somewhere).

 

http://www.bellemore.co.jp/mean.html

 

 

 

 

[kissakai]

Hi Steve

You are right with the piece you have added in red

The last character seems odd but I can not see any missing inlay so I would say all the other are complete

Nice link but as I'm just off to bed I check them out tomorrow

 

 

With thanks

Grev UK

[Stephen]

Nicely done Steve

[Brian]

I hope I am not breaking copyright if I post them here for future reference or if someone is looking for Tensho info.

Looks like they were scanned from a book anyways?

Good find Steve.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Excellent. Many thanks.

 

Can someone change the title of this thread, please, as Sanskrit is a very different question and no-one will ever find these

charts otherwise?!

[Jean]

Done Piers

[Guido]

I have a feeling that you can ‘crack’ this one for me

 

Sorry, but I have to throw in the towel. I think Steve is right, some of the inlay is missing, not only the one that's obvious. Furthermore, it seems to be a mixture of tenshotai and maybe kointai, since the character 音 is written that way, and not in "formal" tenshotai (see attachment).

[Guido]

Done Piers

 

"Charts"? May I suggest "Tensho(tai)"?

[Jean]

Why not Tensho(tai) Charts? Unless tai means charts on Japanese?

[Guido]

Unless tai means charts on Japanese?

 

It’s basically the same, the 体 tai after てん書 tensho just meaning something along the lines of “style”.

 

Tensho Charts sounds good.

[kissakai]

Hi

I pasted the link in google and used the translate option which worked surprisingly well

The first box on the right hand side below the charts takes you to some sample seals 

Why not just Tensho or Seal script chart as it is a term most of us recocognise

 

 

Grev

[Guido]

Oh, I forgot to point out that the charts of the link / posted here only show the most common characters used for names, and are therefore far from complete; Markus' book lists 4,000 characters in tensho.

[SteveM]

May also be interesting for those who have some familiarity with Japanese to use the site below. You can input any kanji and it will give you various tensho font styles for that kanji. (You can also change to koinsho, etc..)

 

http://font.designers-garage.jp/ds/execute/FontSearch?searchType=1&saleType=0&category=09

[Mark S.]

Sorry... I dislike trying to post from a phone, but I'll try even though we are going to have to play a bit of 'Battleship' to reference the proper info...

 

Only have one symbol so far, on the front of the tsuba just below the kozuka hitsu-ana, I think it can be found on the fourth chart of Brian's post, 9th row down, 5th column over. Looks like the kanji for "Wa" or Harmony?

 

Mark S.

[SteveM]

Guido beat you to it, about three days ago. 

 

(咊 is a variant of 和)

[kissakai]

May have to accept defeat on this one especially if it is a mix of styles

 

咊 = Harmony, peace - looks a good shout to me
耒 - come, plough - closest I can get to front of tsuba second image

 

Steve - the image you posted looks dead on for rear of tsuba 1st image but I can't find the kanji or meaning to this character

 

I have tried to use radicals on the Jisho website but again to luck

 

I still can't find any other missing inlay but you never know!

 

 

With thanks

Grev UK

[kissakai]

Hi

I've found out some possibilities re the tsuba that are shown below

I'd really like any other observation, corrections or amendments

I still can not find No 4 but it may be Ko: High, costly

 

 

 

Grev UK