Omura Kaboku - Surgeon, Sword-Smith, Ronin, Eccentric

[general_piffle]

Well if it's originating in Japan why not have Kunitaro san get it now before it is shipped to you for immediate shinsa wo import/export fees piling up?

 

Good idea Brian, thanks. However, it has just shipped yesterday. On top of that I now have a choice because I requested a return from the seller who has granted it with no quibble at all.

 

He simply told me that as the package has shipped I can refuse it or return it when it arrives, as I logged it with eBay as a return I'm covered (personally as a buyer on eBay I've yet to have a bad experience with returns) so I'm confident I'll get my money back.

 

With buying from eBay I was under the impression that this was a 'no no' if the sword wasn't papered, so with respect I thought I was following advice here and 'doing the right thing' by choosing a papered sword. I can appreciate many of you guys probably feel you've seen it and heard it all before but we all start somewhere and just because we're new it doesn't make us stupid. Although I'm sure this was unintentional some of the feedback has come across as pretty negative.

 

However, to add another consideration into all this I didn't originally purchase the sword because of who it was made by. So the smith and mei were secondary to what I believed (with my untrained eye) to be a good-looking nihonto with really interesting hamon (to me) and no obvious rust or blemishes. 

 

It was only after I started looking into the smith and stumbled across the excellent article from Thomas (Toryu) that started this thread that I became really fascinated by Omura Kaboku.

 

I've been in discussion via PM with a few very helpful people far more knowledgeable than me who have all offered contrasting views. Bottom line (and all have agreed on this) is nobody can currently, definitively, say whether the mei is genuine or not. 

 

But can I ask is Omura Kaboku someone who gets faked a lot? I'm probably wrong but I didn't think he was one of the greats, more well known for his eccentricities than creating incredibly valuable swords that would be worth faking? But like I said, the more I discover the less I know.

 

So, I'm now left with a number of choices.

 

I return the sword, get my money back and treat this as a learning experience.

 

I keep the sword, consider it to possibly be a Kaboku and take the 'all old papers are fake' with a pinch of salt, and treat this as a learning experience.

 

I keep the sword, put it forward for shinsa to see what the experts have to say with it in their hands, and treat this as a learning experience.

 

Decisions, decisions!

 

But thank you all for your advice and inputs, both the positive and the negative. It's all good 

[pcfarrar]

Good idea Brian, thanks. However, it has just shipped yesterday. On top of that I now have a choice because I requested a return from the seller who has granted it with no quibble at all.

 

He simply told me that as the package has shipped I can refuse it or return it when it arrives, as I logged it with eBay as a return I'm covered (personally as a buyer on eBay I've yet to have a bad experience with returns) so I'm confident I'll get my money back.

 

 

That means the seller has shipped the sword illegally from Japan, it normally takes 2 weeks or so to get an export permit.

[Alex A]

Hello Joel.

If the seller is offering a no quibble return then i would take him up on his kind offer.

 

Then i would leave the money in the bank, stop trawling Ebay and wouldnt buy another sword until i was 100% sure about what i was buying.

[Heringsdorf]

Hello Joel,

My intention was never to be negative towards you.

I made the same mistake you did when I started collecting nihonto. I bought a signed wakizashi from Komonjo which had an old NBTHK kicho certificate. I thought I made the right decision, but the blade turned out to be gimei. I think most of us who entered this hobby within the last 5 years probably started looking for "treasures" on eBay. Very quickly I realized though to stay away from eBay and only deal with reputable dealers who are highly recommended by the experienced collectors here on this forum.

Since then I have been able to build a small collection of really nice swords and fittings, all singed and with NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon or Hozon certificates. Of course they weren't cheap but I know that what I have is authentic and of good quality.

You get what you pay for. Always remember that.

Another recommendation, buy and read a lot of books about this subject. Some are expensive but totally worth the money.

 

Get books from Markus Sesko http://markussesko.com, he is a true expert in nihonto and even speaks Japanese. He can translate anything you might need to have translated.

Also Grey Doffin is an expert and has a great website http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com. There are many great books there which any serious collector must have.

[general_piffle]

Gentlemen, just to add I have had word from Chris of www.ejapaneseswords.com who has confirmed that the NBTHK certificate is nothing of the sort. This is part of what he said, and I've attached the pictures he's referring to:

 

"Yours is dated Showa 54 (1979) and the issuing organization is the Bijutsu Nihonto Hozon Shinsa Kai 美術日本刀保存審査会.

This is not the NBTHK. I have never heard of them.

Here is a genuine Showa 49 NBTHK kantei-sho. Note column 8 where it says 日本美術刀剣保存協会. They were issues up until Showa 57 (1982). Obviously they are similar in appearance but different."

 

This could be useful as future reference for anyone else looking for info. Thanks.

 

[Heringsdorf]

I think after finding out that this is not even a real NBTHK certificate, I would absolutely return that sword.

To me this looks like fraud, the seller Komonjo can read Japanese and he still advertised this as an NBTHK papered sword.

That's what I mean with utterly untrustworthy sellers on eBay.

You're lucky that you found out all this now, and can return this sword.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I have said it before and I will say it again , anyone who is foolish enough to buy anything off Komonjo deserves to be ripped off . I hope you haven't been Joel but I don't like your chances. Ian Brooks

[general_piffle]

I have said it before and I will say it again , anyone who is foolish enough to buy anything off Komonjo deserves to be ripped off . I hope you haven't been Joel but I don't like your chances. Ian Brooks

 

Thanks for your concern Ian, it's much appreciated. Personally I don't believe anyone deserves to be ripped off but each to their own. The return was accepted without a quibble and has been logged with eBay so under their rules and those of PayPal I'm covered. Having been buying and selling on eBay since 2008 I've yet to have a problem with a return.

[pcfarrar]

Not surprised to discover that the paper is fake....as I mentioned previously the signature didn't match the examples in the books.

 

Once you've got your money back buy a sword that's already in the UK. You have one of the best UK dealers Don Bayney on your doorstep.

[Brian]

I wouldn't call the papers fake. They are just by another (fairly obscure) organization.

 

Btw, you should clarify the return process and try and insist that the return gets done to the USA or elsewhere. Otherwise you are liable to refuse delivery, it goes back to Japan, there is no-one to organize registration, it gets refused by them or destroyed, and you never get your money back because the seller never got his item back. Easy way to play eBay/Paypal and not have to refund.
Returning a sword to Japan (that was probably not registered or deregistered properly) is challenging at best.

[Stephen]

Did he say shipped from Japan? He has swords in USA and ships from there.

Lastly from me Joel im sure you have heard the ol saw. "fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me,"

The Nihonto bug is a seductive mistress, very hard to resist what to a untrained eye a true "Samurai" sword. 

I pray you have learned its time to read and hold in hand someone else's sword.

[Toryu2020]

Busy weekend for me so just getting back to this -

 

You dodged a bullet here Bro - the close-ups of the mei do not look good. Especially the judicious placement of rust pits that look like they were made with a punch. Nice work but not a good signature.

-t

[Stephen]

hence the tried and true, buy the blade not the Mei

[Davis]

Joel

At one time London was awash with swords and they could be obtained very cheaply.  Unfortunately those days have long gone.

 

Living there can still have it's advantages.  There are lots of regular auctions held in the Capital and bordering counties.  Hundreds of swords can be viewed in the course of a year if you are diligent. Don't attempt to buy at this stage.  Go to the viewings, handle the swords, read the catalogue entries, read books, research.  Note the estimates and then check what they are eventually sold for.

 

You can have fun too.  Write in the catalogue what you think each might realise and why you think so.  You might be surprised at some of the results!  It takes time and effort but it can be done.  I've always collected on a budget and found auction viewings very enjoyable and beneficial.  For the price of a catalogue you can get to look at some good swords.

 

All the best

Mick

[general_piffle]

Just a quick update.

 

Komonjo has been an absolute gentleman and all-round great guy to deal with. He refunded my import tax and return postage without me even having to ask him, plus kept me notified of any updates. The sword was returned to him via eBay's system and when it arrived with him today I received a full refund. Mud clearly sticks from some of the negative things people say about him here but in my experience he's been helpful and honest throughout.

[IJASWORDS]

KABOKU. George Trotter's comment above in 2015, prompted me to put a few pics up of the sword that he commented won the 2011 Sydney Shinsa. 

I am "the lucky owner" as George describes. The sword is as interesting as is the historical story above, documenting on the killing of his assassin with a severed hand. 

This sword is in wonderful polish, and any marks seen in the photos are due to cleaning the oil off.    

[george trotter]

That is super nice Neil...I had forgotten just how nice it is.

Congrats! Thanks for posting.

Regards,

[Bruce Pennington]

And thanks for re-booting this thread.  Very interesting story.

[general_piffle]

On 7/21/2021 at 6:03 AM, IJASWORDS said:

KABOKU. George Trotter's comment above in 2015, prompted me to put a few pics up of the sword that he commented won the 2011 Sydney Shinsa. 

I am "the lucky owner" as George describes. The sword is as interesting as is the historical story above, documenting on the killing of his assassin with a severed hand. 

This sword is in wonderful polish, and any marks seen in the photos are due to cleaning the oil off.    

 

@IJASWORDS I have sent you a message. Thanks.