Imperial Japanese Navy Sword Knot

[Dansan]

Hello.

Is there someone who can help me to find some documentation about the formalities of swords knots of Imperial Japanese Navy before 1937 (just for Navy Kyu Guntò and Navy Parade Saber )?

I'm sorry, but this kind of informations seems to be very scarce....

Thanks to all.

[Kai-Gunto]

These knots are made of metal thread, later silk/cotton. Only info I can give.

[Geraint]

As always Thomas, wow!.  Just wow!.

 

All the best.

[Johnny Barracuda]

The Naval kyu-gunto / dress sword knot is peculiar because, contrary to its Army equivalent, it is unique for all ranks, as is the post-1937 Naval sword tassel for the kai gunto.

 

It is acorn-shaped, with a stem (the general shape is similar to the Army field officer rank kyu gunto knot) and, as Thomas pointed out, the material employed is either golden metallic or tan cotton threading. When made with golden metallic threading, it has a tendancy to turn slightly greenish with age and the sling part is much more rigid than on an Army kyu gunto knot.

 

It features additional vertical parallel red zig-zag cotton over-threading, ending in a red round cap at the bottom of the acorn, figuring a stylised rising sun.

 

Last but not least, there are slight variations, depending on the maker of the knots (see attached pictures of metallic ones).

 

 

[Dansan]

Thanks to all for answer, but I have some specific questions in my mind and now I want to share them with you...

1) From my (scarce) informations, the parade saber knot seems to be enacted with the edict 393 of the 20 july 1900 (with Meiji, 33 IJN Uniform minor fix) and it has gold round cord, gold slider and knot, both with red zig zag of rising sun.    

 

Question : The only admiral knot I've seen (few days ago) seems to have a silver (not gold) knot, with red zig zag. Is it a possible material's degradation ?
 
2) Fueller and Gregory Book explain that was a new formality in 1914 and the changes for Kyu Gunto (versus the previous 1896 regulation about "informal" tassels) for Navy Officers was: "PLAIN cord (as Army tassels after 1912), GOLD slider (without red zig zag ?) and red base. The knot is LARGER than the naval saber knot".

Well, I've never seen a naval sword tassel as described above (with plain gold cord and knot larger than the naval saber knot), but I've seen (i.e. Ohmura site) an informal tassel substantially identical to parade saber version (also Red Zig Zag slider) but it sems to have a GOLD (or silver ?) base and it seems to be smaller than the naval parade knot.

Question : Is there anyone which has precise informations about 1914 Navy regulation (including, if possible, NCO's tassels)?

 

 

NavyKyu Gunto informal knot : http://ohmura-study.net/988.html

 

Navy commander saber knot : http://ohmura-study.net/930.html

 

 

Thanks again.

 

Dan

 

 

PS. Also in the image posted by Thomas, all tassels seems to be identical

[Johnny Barracuda]

Dan,

 

The picture is small, but the sword knot on the first Naval kyu gunto you linked to on Ohmura's site looks suspiciously like an Army field officer rank (i.e. major to colonel, see attached pics) kyu gunto sword knot, in that it seems completely golden and the acorn is a bit more tapered than on a Naval knot. So it would not be the right knot for this kind of sword.

 

Regarding Admiral Togo's sword (and not sabre, I have seen it in Japan, it is magnificent!), it is a flag rank sword predating 1914 (it accompanied him at the Battle of Tsushima), as evidenced by the specific floral motif on the guard (despite its abolition in the Navy, this motif was maintained in the colonial administration on sabres for senior civil servants). It bears the regulation sword knot.

 

As regards the Naval kyu gunto, the main change in 1914 was the suppression of the admiral flag rank sword. I would have to check my documents to ascertain whether there was some actual change in the shape of the sword knot, but I would think not. As exposed before, the metallic Naval sword knots tend to turn silverish/greenish with age, but were originally golden, never silvery (see attached pic, it looks green, but when you have it in hand you notice easily its original colour). Cotton sword knots, when clean, stay tan.

 

In Thomas' picture, look closer and you will see the minor differences in shape and material.

[Kai-Gunto]

Theres a photo with a PO with a knot with black strap in the book by G & F. military and civil swords.....

[Johnny Barracuda]

Indeed there is. I stand corrected, because petty officers were entitled to black knots. I was too focussed on officers!

 

However, regarding the variations for officers knots, that G & F. quote directly from the military regulations, Dawson indicates that some provisions of the Military regulations regarding said knots pre-1914 were probably never enforced.

 

A good example is the red and gold knot for Cavalry field officers illustrated in the Japanese Military Uniforms 1841-1929 book, which probably never existed in reality.

 

Furthermore, the drawings from the regulations are rather imprecise.

[Jareth]

Here's my example