My First Katana

[general_piffle]

Hi, this is my first post and also my first Katana. I've added some pictures of the tang, which is pretty rusty but to my untrained eye the rust looks stable, old, and not progressive or active. Although it's made the signature very hard to read fortunately the seller gave me some info about the sword:

 

The blade is signed "Hizen koku ju Tadakuni 肥前国住忠国", shinogi zukuri shape, Edo period ca.1650 era made blade. The signature is barely visible due to rust.   

 

The blade is in old polish, no rust, no stain and in excellent condition. There are no nicks and the cutting edge is sharp. The temper-line is suguba with konie active temper pattern and has deep temper at the point.     

 

The forging grain is tight itame-hada, no opening, no blister and no forging flaws at all. It is rested in ho-wood shirasaya mountings, no crack and in good condition. It measures 64.5mm cutting edge, 30mm width, 6mm thickness at the notch, 48mm from centre of mekugi to bottom of shirasaya grip and top of habaki, 7mm curvature and 91mm in shirasaya.   

 

 

If anyone here can add any information or insights about this sword I'd be really intrigued to hear. Thank you.

 

[Shugyosha]

Dear Mr Piffle,

 

I think that you are going to have to post some pictures of the full blade to get anything of use to you: it's not really possible to say too much without more, other than the tang of this blade is overly rusty for the time period and that the signature is unintelligible so no way really of knowing whether it is genuine from the pictures posted.

 

Also, there is a board rule about signing with your personal name rather than your handle (had I known this when I started I would have chosen something different than mine). 

 

Otherwise, welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy it - it is a great place to learn some interesting stuff.

 

Kind regards,

John

[general_piffle]

Thanks for the welcome John. I've added my name into the signature, wasn't aware of that. If the tang is that rusty does this mean the sword is probably older than circa 1650? Assuming it is authentic of course. I've just taken some more pictures to help give you a better view. I do hope it is genuine! See what you think. Thanks - Joel

 

 

Would appreciate your views. Thanks.

[Stephen]

That sugata id guess shinshinto loyalist blade

[Jean]

Joel,

 

Not bad, but I hope you did not overpaid it because such a rusted nakago/tang implies a 20% discount at least from the normal price. If the blade is not papered, consider it as mumei.

 

The signature (mei) valids the work, so you will have to post a few pictures of the blade to see it it matches the smith work.

[Jean]

Agreed with Stephen

[general_piffle]

Thank you for the replies gentlemen. Could you shed some light on Shinshinto Loyalist blade? I've just tried Googling but drawn a bit of a blank. Thanks.

[Jean]

Joel,

 

It is not my favourite period, I lean on the Nihonto Koto side. But at the end of the 19th century, when Japan became opened to the foreign world, there was a big fight between traditionalists and modernists. Loyalist were wearing straight blades in the spirit of pre Heian blades. Typical koshirae for these blades were what is now known as Satsuma koshirae, stern and very martial.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Joel,

 

Here's a link to a Hizen sword from a little later than yours - Kanbun era started in 1663 or thereabouts so you can see the difference in the patina on the tang on this sword and on yours. 

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-hizen-ju-harima-no-kami-fujiwara-tadakuni

 

Unfortunately, I think it's not so much that it is an older blade but that it has had a harder life.

 

A couple of other things to note, the end of the tang on your sword is a different shape to the example, but that might be that it has been shortened (an unshortened katana of this period would normally*be 70cm ish) and for a katana from Hizen you would normally* expect the signature to be on the side facing towards the wearer if worn through the sash on left hip, edge upwards. 

 

* Unfortunately with Japanese swords there are some rules and usually many exceptions to them, so this may not mean that it is cut and dried.

 

All that said, it looks like you have a geniune Japanese sword. I'm going to let Jean and Stephen take this on for now as my bed is calling.

 

Kind regards,

John

[general_piffle]

Thanks very much for the info! I have the option to return this to the seller so think I might take that route on this occasion and keep looking. 

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

If the tang is that rusty does this mean the sword is probably older than circa 1650?

No, not at all, Joel.  I have a 700-year-old blade with a mei as clear as if it had been made in the late 1800s...yasurime, too.  In general, you simply can't judge jidai from the amount of rust.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Ken

 

[hxv]

This would be the fascinating historical period to which Stephen and Jean referred.

 

http://www.to-ken.com/full.php?article=p00029&type=home

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[Stephen]

We just had a yasukuni (1930s) blade with that kind rusted nakago in for sale section, id worry more about the blade thats been cleaned with what looks like scouring pad or steel wool, if you have the option to return id save for something that has activity in the blade that you can study.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Joel,

If you return the sword take the money and spend it on study: books and attending sword shows.  The more you know the better the choice you'll make next time you go to buy something.  With your current level of knowledge, unless you buy papered from a well respected dealer, you're likely to get another at the same level as this one.  It's a fascinating study and there's no hurry to buy a sword; they'll always be available.

Grey

[general_piffle]

More good advice. Thanks gents.

 

Joel

[Nihonto Chicken]

Welcome to the forum, Joel.  It is apparent that your sword has been mistreated with western style abrasive grit such as sandpaper or Flitz/Simichrome or the like.  It's mirthfully sad that someone tried to replicate a yokote with sandpaper.  Unlike Japanese stones, western hard grits smear the surface metal and obscure the activity in the metal.  If you are keeping this blade, I recommend that you get some uchiko and spend some time clearing away the haze.  If interested, please see my response (#24) to the thread linked below and note the cautions. 

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16047-refinish-and-polish-or-not/

 

Note also that your blade shows some ware (lamination openings).  If these are in the skin steel, then they are just annoying, but not a show stopper.  However, if they are from core steel emerging to the surface from over-polishing, then the sword is essentially toast, value-wise.  This consideration is among many others why the first hundreds of dollars spent on nihonto should be for books, not blades.  Good fortune to you.

[Alex A]

Hello Joel, your description reminds me of Ebay for some reason. Avoid Ebay until you gain a little more knowledge, too much junk about.

 

The book "The Samurai sword" by John M Yumoto is a great starter book and is cheap. A few days reading will make you a whole lot wiser

[cuttingedge59]

Thanks very much for the info! I have the option to return this to the seller so think I might take that route on this occasion and keep looking. 

Hi ,

If i am correct i have a hunch that this may have come from e-bay seller Showa22.

If you do return it to him You must have a good reason ie not as discribed . Send it tracked and signature required on delivery .

E-bay / Paypal will probably side with the seller as was my experience.

He can be slippery when it comes to returns .

Best of luck.

 

Chris nz

[kusunokimasahige]

Am I correct in seeing the remains of a mei ?

 

Or might that be a trick of the eye ?

 

KM

[general_piffle]

Hi ,

If i am correct i have a hunch that this may have come from e-bay seller Showa22.

If you do return it to him You must have a good reason ie not as discribed . Send it tracked and signature required on delivery .

E-bay / Paypal will probably side with the seller as was my experience.

He can be slippery when it comes to returns .

Best of luck.

 

Chris nz

 

Hi Chris, that's correct. In his defence he's sent the refund before the sword has reached him. So all sorted, thanks.