Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 I am looking for help with this sword, I have a completely original and fully complete with all original fittings Suishinshi katana By Suishinshi Masahide, dated 1770’s With Gold and Amazing Dragon Motif on the fittings. I have not yet had it certified but will consider doing so. I would also like to have it refurbished, polished and cleaned but have not yet done so. I really want to have it lightly polished and cleaned in the UK as cheaply and quickly as possible then consider sending it to Japan for a full refurb and certification. There is some staining on the blade but it is not pitting and I am sure the marks will polish out! It has been in my family since the 1940’s and not ever been valued or placed on the market. Would one of your specialists please give me a current valuation best and worst case and help me decide what to do with it? Regards Tai 07903736548 Quote
Fuuten Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 In order to determine (somewhat- until shinsa passes it) and attributes it as a shoshin (authentic) piece by Masahide, value is not very high. Bad state of the blade, no shirasaya, koshirae in bad shape/falling apart, and no papers (from shinsa); the overall value won't be very high. However if you get it polished, new shirasaya made and certified as a shoshin katana (right?), the value will raise considerably. His polished wakizashi go for around 15000 usd. So a full katana can get an even higher price. However, before you can get a real estimate, it needs a new shirasaya (atleast a shirasaya for storage), and a polish. I would recommend using a polisher and artisans in Japan, but that's up to you, shipping + an agent that can do all the arrangements can be quite expensive. Also most polishers have a long waiting list, so it won't be done quickly either way. Think of it as an investment should you consider getting it taken care of the right way. Before doing anything though, please make a good photo of the nagako/tang so members here can atleast give you an idea whether or not its authentic or gimei (false signature). My two cents would be not shoshin Suishinshi Masahide, looks like it was shortened (plus the mei very low on the nagako), and as far as i know, not many blades from Edo period were shortened compared to the real monsters from Koto, Nambokucho period. The fuchi & kashira look nice though. Quote
Stephen Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 take into account 99% of big name mei are gimei, DO Not have some one mess it up, leave it to professional care, please. 1 Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 Ok thank you who is the best agent to send it to Japan from England? And how much could it cost? I have only just discovered it could be a Masahide and obviously I am very excited! Quote
Stephen Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Maybe put it thru shinsa first, then if shoshin it would be worth your time. Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 Maybe put it thru shinsa first, then if shoshin it would be worth your time. How do I put it through shinsa I'm guessing this is authentication? Quote
Fuuten Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Maybe put it thru shinsa first, then if shoshin it would be worth your time. Considering the costs to either send it to Japan or US for shinsa, it would still costs a few hundred pounds, euros or dollars. Might as well have a window polished see if its worth it, then contact agent to get a yes or no on worth polish, then get it polished + shirasaya, and lastly do shinsa? Otherwise it would be quite a bummer on a not worth it. 1 Quote
Fuuten Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 How do I put it through shinsa I'm guessing this is authentication? In shinsa a panel of recognized experts will give their educated opinion. And that will be put on a piece of paper with stamps etc, which is recognized by collectors worldwide. With a name like Suishinshi's, it would either be a gimei (false mei placed on a blade), or shoshin, a true piece (in their opinion) of the smith. But like said above, because it was such a big name, its highly unlikely it would be left in a state like this. I can't imagine leaving my swords to someone that will not take care of them.. 1 Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 Is Shirasaya retying the grip, replacing the old with new silk? Can this be done in the UK with a light polish/clean? If so how much would that cost? Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 In shinsa a panel of recognized experts will give their educated opinion. And that will be put on a piece of paper with stamps etc, which is recognized by collectors worldwide. With a name like Suishinshi's, it would either be a gimei (false mei placed on a blade), or shoshin, a true piece (in their opinion) of the smith. But like said above, because it was such a big name, its highly unlikely it would be left in a state like this. I can't imagine leaving my swords to someone that will not take care of them.. I dont know where the damage has come from it was certainly before it was in my family's possession, we have had it wraped up in a blanket for 60/70 years not knowing what it was. The marks look like stains not pitting and I am sure they will polish out I just dont know where to get it done? Quote
Stephen Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 this is shirasaya, dont think we should be promoting windows on a blade by non pro. Quote
Fuuten Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 I dont know where the damage has come from it was certainly before it was in my family's possession, we have had it wraped up in a blanket for 60/70 years not knowing what it was. The marks look like stains not pitting and I am sure they will polish out I just dont know where to get it done? A polisher will be able to tell you whether or not its salvageable. As far as i know polishers only want the best for all the pieces of work that are left. They don't want to waste their time if its not worth it and they don't want to ruin swords. In the state of this bare blade, i'de opt for a window polish, but perhaps a good agent or a good polisher will give you some good advice (I'm too much of a novice, but this is imo.). Best thing would be is not doing anything, but were it in a better state, light oiling is important. A shirasaya is like a storage case for a blade. It protects the blade from high humidity, and other negative effects. The oil keeps the oxygen and thus rust at bay. Much info on this around. this is shirasaya, dont think we should be promoting windows on a blade by non pro. I didn't mean to imply doing something like a window polish, or any polish on a real Japanese sword yourself. Just saying the option is there for a trained polisher to do a window polish first (small piece of a blade to see if its even worth doing a full polish- which is also a lot cheaper, and gets you some information). Total costs differ a lot, but for a big blade, a minimum quality shirasaya, think a 400(?) usd?, shipping + agent = another few hundred bucks (maybe around 300), and window polish i have no idea. Depends on the polisher etc. Hard to give you an estimate, but think a thousand usd at the least. Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 Ye I thought thats what you meant I think thats a grerat idea. I just dont know where to go to have that done! Quote
Stephen Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 we have seen greater blades left in worst care. take better photos of the mei blade up tang down, we have a few member who can give us a educated call on the mei, its dated tenmei ni or 1783..more mei pix please. 1 Quote
Stephen Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 hear from a few other member first before window, seems im not making a impression that Alex is. Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 just taking more pics now Quote
Fuuten Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Message sent, check your inbox:) Quote
Fuuten Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 hear from a few other member first before window, seems im not making a impression that Alex is. Well trust that I'm on your side, I'm sure you know much more than i do. Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 These are the best Photos I can manage to get Quote
Fuuten Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 They're upside down but i suppose thats easy to fix. Also unless its raining outside, try to get some photo's in sunlight. Thats generally the best to show details. Quote
Ray Singer Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Reference link for comparison. http://nihontoclub.com/sword-images/16761/16808 http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/MAS102 - Ray Quote
Brian Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Please edit the post and post the pics the right way up. Also, you could consider this service: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12772-sword-polishing-service-in-Japan/ But as mentioned, high probability exists for gimei. That doesn't mean it is worthless, but big names without papers are always considered gimei unless proven otherwise. Brian Quote
Greg F Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Hello Tai, I think its extremely important that you take all the advice here and be prepared to take your time to have only profesionals that members here recomend doing anything with this blade, not just for financial reasons but for the swords best interests and its preservation. You will be glad you did. Greg Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 Hello Tai, I think its extremely important that you take all the advice here and be prepared to take your time to have only profesionals that members here recomend doing anything with this blade, not just for financial reasons but for the swords best interests and its preservation. You will be glad you did. Greg Yes I will, I believe in the correct handling before anything! Quote
Stephen Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 mei to compare http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/O45776_S8893_PUP_E.htm Quote
CSM101 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 When I compare your sword with the sword from sanmei.com, then I think your sword is not from Suishinshi Masahide. Uwe G. Quote
Tai Posted September 14, 2015 Author Report Posted September 14, 2015 When I compare your sword with the sword from sanmei.com, then I think your sword is not from Suishinshi Masahide. Uwe G. I have read that Suishinshi Masahide only started to stamp his swords later and not all of them have the stamp. Quote
peterd Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 You could take it to the london antique arms fair. There is a dealer who probably will help (no guarantee) next show 3|10|15 Quote
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