Tôrokushô Translation Help

[Fuuten]

Hello there,

 

I'm looking to learn a little bit more about one of my swords.. If there is someone that could help me out translating the card it would be much appreciated. Especially interested in the date of registration and maybe some of the not standard kanji on such a registration card.

 

I know that in the third row (from the right) its specified as a tachi, but other than that, i can't translate most of it. I can read some of the kanji but my vocabulaire in Japanese is minimal.

 

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Axel

[Peter Bleed]

Trying to get ahead of the real experts on the list is a dangerous activity, but this registrationlooks very interesting - EVEN if I can't read it!

It says it dates from the 12th month of the opening year of Manroku so that is - ahhh - 1860, right.

The mei is a challenge for me could it be Kawai  Hisatoshi or HisaSOMETHING?  who was 75 when he made it.

AND, the Torokusho itself is dated very early, too. Is it Showa 26?

Overall this is very interesting. Please show us the sword!

Peter

[Fuuten]

Dear Peter,

 

Thank you for your reply. The smith's name is Kawai hisayuki, which was forged in  1860 when Hisayuki/Kametaro (civilian name) was 75. So it seems it was registrated right after crafting, although the registration card doesn't seem thát old. I don't know when it was subjected to registration and whether they used the date of creation because it was signed and dated, or that it was actually registrated at that date..

 

Either way your comment is much appreciated!

[Peter Bleed]

Axel,

Sorry if I was unclear.  I THINK the the date of the toroku - that is the "registration" - was in the early 1950s, So the sword was almost 100 years old when it was submitted for registration. There was recent a discussion on the NMB about when registration started. It would be worth checking that thread. The date on your registration card looks like it was a very early registration. And it was registered up in Aomori.

The date on the card is - I THINK - the date of the registration. It is on the farleft. The date of the sword is presented in the column that is thrird from the left for descriptive purposed to identify this sword.

I see the "YUKI" now. Hisayuki was an interesting smith. I has a spear by him and - years ago - a tanto. As I recall, both of those also showed his age.

This seems like an interesting sword.

Peter

[Baka Gaijin]

Morning all,

 

Just to get things rolling;

 

You have Omote and Ura together with Nagasa printed on the sheet.

 

See if you can find those Kanji.

[kusunokimasahige]

You do know I hope that a torikusho outside of Japan is illegal ?

This should never have been sent with the sword. from Japan it is seen as a crime.

Not that that should worry you. But just so you know,

[Fuuten]

You do know I hope that a torikusho outside of Japan is illegal ?

 

This should never have been sent with the sword. from Japan it is seen as a crime.

 

Not that that should worry you. But just so you know,

 

 

No worries, its just a scan/photo of the card when it was still in Japan:)

 

 

Malcolm, i'm coming back to your advise, just don't have much time lately.

[Fuuten]

Ok sorry, took some time before I got things going..

 

Please advise and correct:)

 

Thank you in advance,

 

 

 

 

Edit: to add: Peter, i tried searching the forum, did you mean this topic? (http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16555-authenticity-of-nbthk-papers-green-paper/?hl=registration&do=findComment&comment=172441), it remarks on registration cards somewhere after op.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Axel,

 

The part you aren't sure of is the blade's sori and the kanji that looks like that for ten is "sun". I think the signature on the blade and Torokusho match but the cursive script on the paper makes it hard to read.

Best, John

[Jussi Ekholm]

Here is what I think, there are 2 blank spots. I saw your sword at Winners while I was checking the mei and I think it looked very nice even though I'm not really into swords of this era.

 

銃砲刀剣類登録証

登録記号番号？？？第一 〇七〇号

種別たち長さ二尺五寸二分, 厘
     
反り -寸二分五厘  目くぎ穴  ？ 個
    
銘文 表幕府士川井久幸七十五歳作 

裏 蔓延元甲年十二月

文化財保護委員会

昭和 二六年六月六日発行

[Fuuten]

Here is what I think, there are 2 blank spots. I saw your sword at Winners while I was checking the mei and I think it looked very nice even though I'm not really into swords of this era.

 

銃砲刀剣類登録証

 

登録記号番号？？？第一 〇七〇号

 

種別たち長さ二尺五寸二分, 厘

     

反り -寸二分五厘  目くぎ穴  ？ 個

    

銘文 表幕府士川井久幸七十五歳作 

裏 蔓延元甲年十二月

 

文化財保護委員会

 

昭和 二六年六月六日発行

You're going a little above my head here!

 

Please elaborate

 

And John, thank you for replying, i was scratching my head with both images open and i just couldn't see it, like some characters were either used differently or combined, either way, i'll have to look into this more.

[seattle1]

Hello:

 Jussi isn't it strange that the torokusho date seems to be written ni-roku, 26,  our Arabic numeral order, and the age of Hisayuki as shichi-ju-go, 75, in the usual Japanese order. I don't know if I have seem the order forms combined like that before on the same document. Showa 26 is usually, but not exclusively, seen as the first post-war registration date, thought by some to be the golden date for such, and was also in accordance with the Japanese independence year after the Occupation.

 Arnold F.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I had to rush to class so the translation part was left out as I didn't have time. I've seen in many sword books that numbers are just two kanji under eachother. For example when length is is centimeters or item number is mentioned etc. I don't know how correct it is but we tend to shorten numbers similarily in speech in Finnish language.

 

Firearms & swords registration card

Registration place & number ( I couldn't figure out the place )

Type of sword - tachi , nagasa 2 shaku 5 sun 2 bu - rin

Sori - sun 2 bu 5 rin , mekugiana ? (but it has 2)

Mei, omote - Bakufu-shi Kawai Hisayuki made at age of 75.

Ura - Man'en (I don't understand what this means in the middle) 12th month.

Cultural properties committee

Issued at Shōwa 26 6th month 6th day

 

Someone can translate the missing parts and correct the errors.

 

I looked and it seems that the sword is published in 新々刀大鑑 ( Shinshintō Taikan ) and it has Koshu Tokubetsu Kicho papers. In pics it looks like a very good sword to my eye. The ad and tōrokushō seem to have incorrect sori 2 bu 5 rin, the book has 5 bu 5 rin which sounds more reasonable, NBTHK papers have 2 shaku 5 sun 1 bu for length while tōrokushō and book have 2 shaku 5 sun 2 bu (76,4cm).

[SteveM]

The registration place is noted as Aomori (青森)
The number of mekugi ana is noted as two, using the alternative kanji for two (弐) , which you sometimes see on official documents, and is sometimes used in order to reduce the risk of tampering with the numbers.
甲 should be 申, and refers to the Chinese zodiac year.

Finally, I think the registration date is the 26th of June, not the 6th.

 

 Jussi isn't it strange that the torokusho date seems to be written ni-roku, 26,  our Arabic numeral order, and the age of Hisayuki as shichi-ju-go, 75, in the usual Japanese order.

 

Bear in mind the age is inscribed on the sword, and so the registrar faithfully copied what was on the sword (i.e. 七十五歳, or 75 years old). The other numerals are written on the registration card, and so its not strange that they might be rendered differently from the way the numerals are inscribed on the nakago.

 

Edit for Axel: If all of this is flying over your head, it might be useful for you to check out the kanji glossaries under the Research button at the top of this page. Lots of good info in there. 

 

[seattle1]

Hello:

I recognize Steve that the numerals are in the Japanese order on the nakago and the Arabic order (if that is the correct term) on the torokusho. Have you seen that numbering order on another torokusho? I haven't and I just wonder why they did it that way.

Arnold F.

[Fuuten]

Steve, Arnold, Jussi,

 

Thank you all for adding to the translation. I've learned a lot more by just laboriously search and find kanji than i did before.

I went to the research section before, but i suppose i need to make it a bookmark, or a tab, so i end up there more often

 

Right now i have it as follows:

 

銃砲刀剣類登録証


Firearms & swords registration card

登録記号番号？？？第一 〇七〇号


Registration place & number, Aomori (青森)

種別たち長さ二尺五寸二分, 厘


Type of sword - tachi. Nagasa 2 shaku 5 sun 2 bu - rin.   

反り -寸二分五厘  目くぎ穴  ？ 個


Sori - sun 2 bu 5 rin. Mekugi ana: 2 (alternative kanji for two (弐))    

銘文 表幕府士川井久幸七十五歳作
Mei: omote - Bakufu-shi Kawai Hisayuki made at age of 75.
裏 蔓延元甲年十二月 (甲 should be 申, and refers to the Chinese zodiac year)


Ura - Man'en 12th month.

文化財保護委員会


Cultural properties committee
.
昭和 二六年六月六日発行
Issued at Shōwa 26, 6th month 26th day.
 

[SteveM]

Hello:

 Have you seen that numbering order on another torokusho?

Hello Arnold, you mean, for example, 七十五 vs 七五?

 

I have three registration certificates, and on all three the length of the sword is noted as the latter. In other words, the middle 十 is omitted. 62.5 centimeters is written as

六二.五 センチメートル.

(The dates are all in the teens, so no help there.)

It doesn't strike me as particularly unusual for the date to be rendered as 二六 rather than 二十六. 

[SteveM]

銃砲刀剣類登録証


Firearms & Swords Registration Certificate


登録記号番号青森第一〇七〇号


Registration Number: Aomori #1070


種別: たち 長さ二尺五寸二分、厘


Type of sword - tachi. Nagasa 2 shaku 5 sun 2 bu - rin.   


反り -寸二分五厘  　目くぎ穴　弐個


Sori - sun 2 bu 5 rin. Mekugi ana: 2    


銘文 表幕府士川井久幸七十五歳作

Mei: Omote - Bakufu-shi Kawai Hisayuki made at age of 75.

裏 萬延元申年十二月


Ura - Man'en Gan (shin/saru) Nen, December.


文化財保護委員会


Cultural Properties Committee
.

昭和 二六年六月二六日発行

Issued on Shōwa 26th, June 26th

 

Cleaned up the ragged bits, and fixed the kanji for 萬延

[Fuuten]

Cleaned up the ragged bits, and fixed the kanji for 萬延

Thanks Steve!

[seattle1]

Hello:

Thanks Steve; I stand corrected. I just had not seen that mixing myself and find it strange on an official document.

Arnold F.