Stephen Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 that thick bubbly red rust needs to be removed, if you have a small wood mallet light tapping will help, along with some oiling with a ruff towel un till red no longer shows on the towel, dont be tempted to use steel it will expose or open steel to show ..you dont want that, might be a mei under the last photo ruff rust, along the mune, ill walk you thur it in PM if you like. I could see this sword being saved like Lazarus and rise from the grave. Quote
Lazarus Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Posted October 9, 2015 that thick bubbly red rust needs to be removed, if you have a small wood mallet light tapping will help, along with some oiling with a ruff towel un till red no longer shows on the towel, dont be tempted to use steel it will expose or open steel to show ..you dont want that, might be a mei under the last photo ruff rust, along the mune, ill walk you thur it in PM if you like. I could see this sword being saved like Lazarus and rise from the grave. Thanks Stephen. Would be happy for further suggestions. I do not have a small wood mallet, but perhaps the larger end of an oversize bamboo chopstick? Quote
tokashikibob Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Nice Sugata! The height of the mune machi shows that this blade may be able to take a good stone polish in the future. Before you lose interest in the project, if you bring it to a future Chicago show maybe you can get a window opened up if there is a polisher on hand and expert opinion on it's merits or lack thereof. Best Regards, Bob Quote
Stephen Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Agree with Bob a window is in demand. Steve you can try, its not heavy hitting just tap tap tap till it flakes off, The brass hammer one gets in maintenance kit work as well, Please oil the blade ASAP Quote
Lazarus Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks guys. Questions: What oil should I use and when is the next Chicago show? Quote
Stephen Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Mineral oil will do, or 3n1. Not sure if they will have a togi or not, Mark should let us know, is that close to you? Show in Tampa in Feb, check under shows, maybe Chris will be offering IDK. 0h Chi town is always in April Edited October 9, 2015 by Stephen Quote
Mark Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Chicago is April 29, 30 May 1, 2016......... for details check www.chicagoswordshow.com there will be a lot of knowledgeable people there, very educational. any questions email me thanks Quote
Lazarus Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Posted October 10, 2015 Chicago is April 29, 30 May 1, 2016......... for details check www.chicagoswordshow.com there will be a lot of knowledgeable people there, very educational. any questions email me thanks Mark, thanks. I'm in SE Ohio, so well within travel range. Working to put that on my calendar! Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 The mei isn't as important as the sugata, & what the nakago can tell us, Lazarus. From your first photo in the last group, I think the blade is likely from Muromachi, but can't really tell for sure, so please take a shot from straight overhead. The nakago is a toss-up for suriage or ubu; one angle makes it look like it's been shortened, & the other angle...I can't tell for sure. The middle photo is quite interesting, as the nakago looks much thicker than the blade itself, indicating that it's been through a lot of polishes. But that may be an optical illusion, as the nakago looks thinner as it moves away from the machi. Red rust is active rust, & I suggest that you find a piece of antler (if available) or bone to remove some of it. Don't use anything harder to prevent damage to the steel. Last, do please sign your posts, per Brian's rules. Ken 1 Quote
Lazarus Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Posted October 10, 2015 The mei isn't as important as the sugata, & what the nakago can tell us, Lazarus. From your first photo in the last group, I think the blade is likely from Muromachi, but can't really tell for sure, so please take a shot from straight overhead. The nakago is a toss-up for suriage or ubu; one angle makes it look like it's been shortened, & the other angle...I can't tell for sure. The middle photo is quite interesting, as the nakago looks much thicker than the blade itself, indicating that it's been through a lot of polishes. But that may be an optical illusion, as the nakago looks thinner as it moves away from the machi. Red rust is active rust, & I suggest that you find a piece of antler (if available) or bone to remove some of it. Don't use anything harder to prevent damage to the steel. Last, do please sign your posts, per Brian's rules. Ken Ken, thanks! Sorry about the signing part. Think I got that fixed. The part of the Nakago closest to the moon-machi is indeed thicker and the nakago gets thinner as it moves to the where the Kashira should be. Quote
Lazarus Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Posted October 10, 2015 Here are additional picture of the Nakago. I hope they better show its shape. Quote
Stephen Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Rust never sleeps, have a wood spoon in kitchen you dont care about? Quote
Lazarus Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Posted October 12, 2015 After some continued tapping with a wood spoon and rough towel rub, I seem to have gotten some of the rust and may have revealed two possible Kanji characters (see photos). There is perhaps too much damage for them to be legible (if that is what they are). I also said the sword was 29 inches in length. The length of the whole thing is 38.5 inches. Quote
Stephen Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 More oil...till no red rust...on phone sorry this is short Quote
jason_mazzy Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 that looks like a lot of sori Quote
SteveM Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 Starting to get interesting... I couldn't see any kanji through the rust, but the shape is very nice. Quote
Lazarus Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Posted October 12, 2015 How much rust cleaning on a Nakago is allowed? Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 Very nice sugata! This could be extremely interesting in polish. I hope you do get a window opened on it and if in Chicago, I'm sure a few people would be more than happy to look at it. Quote
SteveM Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 I wouldn't go overboard trying to clean off the rust from the nakago. If it has been hidden in that tsuka for over 60 years, I would think/hope the rust has stabilized by now. Keep the whole thing lightly oiled until next April, or until somebody with a bit of knowledge can take a look. Quote
Stephen Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 Morning Not much more per your question, take your towel and give a fair amount of oil, wipe until red starts to dissipate, wipe off excess. then wrap with a oily rag, till it can be shown. The whole blade. Good work so far. 1 Quote
Lazarus Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Posted April 4, 2017 While I could not get to Chicago for last year's convention, I will be there this year and will bring my sword/components. I hope that someone there can help me to identify it. Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted April 4, 2017 Report Posted April 4, 2017 There will be a slew of people in town for this show. I will be the one with the 5 year old girl along for the ride. Quote
Darcy Posted April 6, 2017 Report Posted April 6, 2017 This needs to be seen in hand by a polisher. The distinct narrowing above the nakago implies the blade is old. Or else was repeatedly left to rust like this. The flip side is that it may not polish out very well. But polishers have to be the ultimate judge. If it can be saved you have some hopes of an interesting blade here. Maybe early Muromachi is the right call so far. Nobody will truly know what it is without seeing the work that's under the rust. I would just continually oil the thing with a rag until the rag comes away clean at this point and leave the rest to a polisher. 1 Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted April 6, 2017 Report Posted April 6, 2017 Bob benson is usually there and can help to Darcy's points above. 1 Quote
Lazarus Posted April 6, 2017 Author Report Posted April 6, 2017 Sadly this blade was left to rust in various garages and sheds (but not outside) since at least late 1945. Was never used to chop wood, cut the Thanksgiving turkey or any of the other things I have heard U.S. military veterans doing with ninhonto they brought back to the U.S. Surprisingly (or perhaps not surprisingly) the blade is still reasonably sharp (for something that has not seen attention for over 70 years.) Not enough to cut skin on mere touch but still sharp enough to register on skin. What kind of oil should I use? I have the John Yumoto book for help in care/identification. Thanks! Quote
Jamie Posted April 7, 2017 Report Posted April 7, 2017 You can order choji oil, but light machine oil will work. Singer sewing machine oil should work if you can't get or don't want to order choji oil. 1 Quote
Stephen Posted April 7, 2017 Report Posted April 7, 2017 Camellia oil often used in Nippon now days http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/camelliaoil100ml.aspx I think i have a extra bottle along with a used Bob Benson uchiko ball, PM me if interested. Quote
Lazarus Posted April 7, 2017 Author Report Posted April 7, 2017 Thanks for the oil suggestions! Quote
Verity Posted April 8, 2017 Report Posted April 8, 2017 Just based on sugata and wild guess, that sort of looks sue Bizen to me... like something Tadamitsu would have done...? I am wildly speculating now... not a lot of visible characteristics to go by beyond overall sugata but that does look sue Bizen to my eye... Quote
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