I Believe It To Be An Ken, Not An Yari..

bmoore1322 · August 21, 2015

This is one of my new blades on the way to me from Japan.

The seller said it was an Yari mounted as an Tanto, I believe it to be an KEN, not Yari.

It is EDO period, copper Habaki.

It is MUMEI.

What do you all think ?

kusunokimasahige · August 21, 2015

It is an Oomi-Yari.afaik, not a Ken.

Kai-Gunto · August 21, 2015

Yari.

Jamie · August 21, 2015

Yari

DirkO · August 21, 2015

It's not an Omi-yari, that term is only used for yari with a considerable nagasa.

I actually do believe it's a Ken, the nakago is tapering too much and it's not square enough for it to be a pole weapon.

Brian · August 21, 2015

Think a ken would be diamond shaped, and not be flat one one side.

- B -

Kai-Gunto · August 21, 2015

This is a ken. Look at the nakago and the yokote near the tip.

http://yakiba.com/Ken_MichiYuki.htm

DirkO · August 21, 2015

So are these:
http://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/tantou/069/00.html

http://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/tantou/099/00.html

I think a ken is a straight blade with a double cutting edge. I'm not so sure it has to be diamond shaped

Ken (剣): Usually a tanto or wakizashi length religious or ceremonial blade, with a gentle leaf shape and point, but some may be larger and can also refer to old pre-curve types of swords as above. Symmetrical and double edged.

bmoore1322 · August 21, 2015

I ask because I'm not 100% positive.

Plus I wanted to share it with everyone in here also..

Thanks for the input from everyone, much appreciated..

Guido · August 21, 2015

Symmetrical

Well, this one isn't, i.e. the two sides are of different shape; it's also of typical yari shape.

ROKUJURO · August 21, 2015

It is a SANKAKU YARI, a thrusting weapon, not primarily a cutting weapon.

Geraint · August 21, 2015

So from this we can conclude.

1 Ken are usually, if not always, ryoshinogi in form.

2 Quite a few hira sankaku yari exist and are not uncommonly found mounted as tanto.

3 We wonder what has happened to the kerakubi if this was a yari.

4 The nakago is not terribly well finished if the blade was formed this way which seems to suggest o suriage.

Or of course, it just might be an odd tanto that someone felt like making this way...................

All the best.

Jean · August 21, 2015

Don't forget the hi ....

Edit to add:

It is really curious, the nakago lets suppose by its triangular shape that the blade is O suriage but, I have never seen a sansaku yari without a hi, but this hi seems intact so the blade is not O suriage. Very curious indeed

bmoore1322 · August 21, 2015

I love Nihonto's that are not the ordinary, that makes us all think about it, why it was built, and for what reason.

Ray Singer · August 21, 2015

Don't forget the hi ....

Edit to add:

It is really curious, the nakago lets suppose by its triangular shape that the blade is O suriage but, I have never seen a sansaku yari without a hi, but this hi seems intact so the blade is not O suriage. Very curious indeed

I have seen yari in which the piece was so polished down that the original hi was nearly gone. It is not impossible to imagine that this was a longer piece, the original hi has been eliminated, and a new hi added after the o'suriage process. Looking at the belly-effect (concave areas mid-blade) it is evidence that this piece has been greatly degraded over time (much metal removed). That would be my guess, a yari (not a ken) in which the kerakubi is gone and the current nakago was originally part of the blade.

- Ray

Jean · August 21, 2015

Ray,

image 10 gives an idea of the depth of the groove which is consequent. What would have been the thickness of the original blade should have it been shaved to the point of having its original groove erased. What would have been the original hamon width of such a blade?

It seems nevertheless the only logical explanation

Ray Singer · August 22, 2015

Hi Jean, I admit it may be a stretch. I have a yari here that is exceptionally thick, perhaps 1.5mm. It was when held in hand that I could see that a reduction past the current hi would leave a sugata like the example here (the more 'normal' Kasane of a small ken). I would be interested in knowing the thickness of the sword we are discussing.

Best,

Ray

bmoore1322 · August 22, 2015

Here are three more pics I didn't know I had I my email.

Hope these help with size.

Thanks

Stephen · August 22, 2015

cool yari

bmoore1322 · August 22, 2015

More pics for viewing..

I thought the piece of paper that came with it, was supposed to have stayed in Japan..

This is so much better viewing in person..

Jean · August 23, 2015

I asked Brian the thickness of the blade. It is 1/2 inch or 1,1 cm. Now if we have a look on what is available in the market, the average thickness of yari is between 0,9 and 1 cm. All these yari have still their original grooves. This would make a monster in thickness of this blade should the original groove having been totally polish flat.

Hypothesis: what could have occured is that before being totally finished (hi not being carved) the blade was seriously damaged near the kerabuki thus transformed in a tanto from the beginning which would explain this groove.

Guido · August 23, 2015

Well, the tōrokushō (which indeed shouldn't be with the blade if it's outside Japan) clearly states "yari".

Jean · August 23, 2015

Thanks Guido.

Interesting blade by its history.

bmoore1322 · August 23, 2015

I would love to know what each section says, and means on the paper.

Thanks...

Lee Bray · August 23, 2015

Here's some info on your torokusho - http://www.jssus.org/nkp/japanese_sword_laws.html

I'd be wary of dealing again with someone who circumvents the rules but that's just my opinion.

bmoore1322 · August 23, 2015

Page 205 on the link mentioned above is really cool.

Guido · August 23, 2015

Page 205?

A slightly revised, later version of my article can also be found on NMB: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/30-Japanese-sword-laws-and-importexport/

I should update in regard to shipping, btw.

Kam A · August 24, 2015

Personally I believe it had started its life as a Yari. Tanto and wakizashi conversions are not rare. . but that is just my opinion.

As for sizes of yari etc, here is a few old pics of one from my collection after all the rust and pitting was removed (in other words it had a fair bit of steel removed)

Nagasa 25cm.

Kam

bmoore1322 · August 24, 2015

On mine, they would had to reshape the Nakago, the Ha-Machi and the Mune-Machi for it to be in the Ken shape that it is in now.

Most Yari's I have looked all seem to have the rounded and tapered end for it to fit flush with the pole / Nagaye.

Just my input..

bmoore1322 · August 28, 2015

I have a chance to buy an papered tanto with the original Koshirae, and an Shirasaya also.

I might have to sell this Nihonto Ken / Yari to purchase it, as its quite a bit more then what I have to work with right now.

If I was to offer this one for sale, what would be an good asking price on it ?

I never like to sell, only buy, but I really want this one Tanto really bad.

Thanks..
Brian

Sign In

I Believe It To Be An Ken, Not An Yari..

Recommended Posts

Join the conversation